LTCF Noob - Question about obtaining it

[whiteboinoob]

So I am originally from New Jersey. That being said I have a new jersey license. I am currently 21 turning 22 in a few weeks. I have wanted a LTCF for obvious reasons for some time now after being assaulted and held up at gun point.

I moved here when I was 18 for college, and have since moved in to an apartment (rent it out). My names on the lease and all that.

So from my understanding you need to posses a Pennsylvania license to obtain a LTCF as well as provide proof of residency and SS card and all that.
If you are not a resident you can still obtain one as long as you prove that you have a similar license in your state of residency. (which I don't)

I need to keep my NJ license because I am under my parents health insurance and switching my license would remove me from the plan.

Now Is there a way I can obtain a LTCF with out a PA drivers license/state ID? With my NJ license? I can still prove I am a resident of PA, show my SS card, passport, bring mail/lease to prove residency. If not am I still able to purchase a gun to protect my house and bring to the range with me?

Thanks for the info guys, sorry for a long read hopefully someone could help. No one I know has an answer.

[phillykev]

It sounds like you're commiting insurance fraud. You're required by law to get a PA license within a specific time frame of moving here (I believe 30 days). I wouldn't suggest going to the police with this story to get a LTCF because you basically just publicly admitted to breaking a couple of laws.

[whiteboinoob]

lol really? I am a college student here in PA, and I am still labeled as a dependent under my mother. On my nj license etc it has all my nj home info.

so in short its not possible to obtain a LTCF, but still possible to purchase a handgun for home protection?

[whiteboinoob]

I am reading online that the florida ccw license is permitted in PA. With that, I can take a class for it obtain a Florida non-resident license, and legally carry in Philadelphia, is that correct?

[tl_3237]

I am reading online that the florida ccw license is permitted in PA. With that, I can take a class for it obtain a Florida non-resident license, and legally carry in Philadelphia, is that correct?

Yes - but be aware that Phila just passed a 'ordinance' that says you can't. This 'ordinance' is invalid under the statute preemption statute (18 Pa CSA 6120) but will eventually require a court challenge to be removed.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/br...mitations.html

As to the purchase of a firearm while you are residing in PA, under a BATFE ruling, you are considered a Pa resident for purposes of the FEDERAL laws when physically occupying your Pa housing. One word of caution - don't try to take that Pa bought firearm back to your NJ residence while you still maintain the Pa residence unless you have the proper NJ licensure (NJ legal longarms - NJFID, handguns - NJCCW). You can only take it back to NJ when you are actually moving back to NJ.

ATF Rul. 80-21
"State of residence" is defined by
regulation in 27 CFR 178.11 as the
State in which an individual regularly
resides or maintains a home. The
regulation also provides an example
of an individual who maintains a
home in State X and a home in State
Y. The individual regularly resides in
State X except for the summer
months and in State Y for the summer
months of the year. The regulation
states that during the time the individual
actually resides in State X he is a
resident of State X, and during the
time he actually resides in State Y he
is a resident of State Y.
Applying the above example to out=of-
State college students it is held,
that during the time the students actually
reside in a college dormitory or
at an off-campus location they are
considered residents of the State
where the dormitory or off-campus
home is located. During the time outof-
State college students actually
reside in their home State they are
considered residents of their home
State.
[ATFB 1980-4 25]

As to the LTCF I cannot find anything definitive as to whether you are considered a Pa resident for LTCF issuance purposes - then again I can't find anything that says you're not. It can be argued that you are not 'domiciled' in Pa but you certainly 'reside' in Pa and the PA Supreme court has made that distinction. Would be an interesting point to explore further.

[whiteboinoob]

Yes - but be aware that Phila just passed a 'ordinance' that says you can't. This 'ordinance' is invalid under the statute preemption statute (18 Pa CSA 6120) but will eventually require a court challenge to be removed.

As to the purchase of a firearm while you are residing in PA, under a BATFE ruling, you are considered a Pa resident for purposes of the FEDERAL laws when physically occupying your Pa housing. One word of caution - don't try to take that Pa bought firearm back to your NJ residence while you still maintain the Pa residence unless you have the proper NJ licensure (NJ legal longarms - NJFID, handguns - NJCCW). You can only take it back to NJ when you are actually moving back to NJ.

As to the LTCF I cannot find anything definitive as to whether you are considered a Pa resident for LTCF issuance purposes - then again I can't find anything that says you're not. It can be argued that you are not 'domiciled' in Pa but you certainly 'reside' in Pa and the PA Supreme court has made that distinction. Would be an interesting point to explore further.

Hey thanks for that in depth response. It was very helpful. As someone stated earlier, if I brought this up with the police here there may be a chance I am committing insurance fraud. But if I were going to look in to this further, and argue that I am a resident of PA (reside here (rent apartment) and pay PA bills, taxes, etc etc) how would I go about doing this? I have wanted this LTCF for a while now, and would like to get this sorted so in the next month I can act on it.

Edit: Also, I would just like to mention I do not plan on moving back to my NJ house any time soon. I am in college at least for another half a year, and I plan on either residing here until I find a job either in Philadelphia or out of state which in that case I would move. But as of now (unless for work) for the next 3-4 years I dont see my self moving out of Philadelphia.

Also I just saw what you bolded in that statement. How would that work in my situation? Its clear that while I am at school I am a resident here, and when out of school I am a resident of NJ (which I am never because we go to school year round here at Drexel, and I don't leave philly due to my part time job). I have a NJ drivers license, but reside in PA pretty much the whole year except maybe the 3-4 weeks total I go visit home for vacations/holidays. But I can't get a PA license because my health insurance is under my mothers plan. And getting a state i.d would void my NJ drivers license, removing me from the health insurance.

That said, there is no possibility of a "dual license" type deal since technically I reside in two places (by law), and getting a LTCF requires a PA state id. Im sht out of luck then?

[tl_3237]

Others might have a better idea but my suggestion is to raise the question the AG office as to the definition of resident with respect to LTCF issuance (18 Pa CSA 6109) and how it would apply to a Pa residing college student.

Just for a lark you could also ask the question of the Phila licensing department but I don't expect that their answer would be dispositive if they deny your 'residency'.

As to your NJ/insurance issue - you're getting into a gray area. The issue revolves on whether you maintain a home in NJ with the intention of returning to it after your college efforts.

BTW I not certain but I thought that the Obamacare extension to 26 year olds is now in effect and it didn't require your residing with the parents. Check this out and, if that is indeed the case, convert to a Pa license and you're good to go on all accounts without losing you insurance.

[tl_3237]

Also I just saw what you bolded in that statement. How would that work in my situation? Its clear that while I am at school I am a resident here, and when out of school I am a resident of NJ (which I am never because we go to school year round here at Drexel, and I don't leave philly due to my part time job). I have a NJ drivers license, but reside in PA pretty much the whole year except maybe the 3-4 weeks total I go visit home for vacations/holidays. But I can't get a PA license because my health insurance is under my mothers plan. And getting a state i.d would void my NJ drivers license, removing me from the health insurance.

That said, there is no possibility of a "dual license" type deal since technically I reside in two places (by law), and getting a LTCF requires a PA state id. Im sht out of luck then?

That bolded part of the ATF ruling only applies to the FEDERAL gun laws (18 USC 922). In essense what it says is that, as a out-of-state college student with a Pa residence you are entitled to purchase firearms from a Pa FFL just like any other Pa resident while you are occupying that Pa residence. I'm unaware of any Pa state statute that would prevent someone in your position from purchasing a firearm in Pa. Since there is neither a Federal nor a state impediment (assuming you pass the PICS check for FFL transfers) you can buy a longarm/handgun in Pa - even with an NJ license and proof of Pa residency. Again don't take a Pa purchased firearm to NJ without NJ licensure or unless moving the household.

Although a DL/ID is the most oft means used to obtain an LTCF, I'm only aware that you have to establish identity and residency. The LTCF issuance under 18 Pa CSA 6109 linked does not specify you need either technically. Your NJ license proves you identity but the gray area is what is acceptable for Pa residency - that's where you need to explore further with the AG/Phila for some type of ruling on your residency.

Again check out the Obamacare provision first - you might not have a problem.
http://www.healthcare.gov/law/provis...ult/index.html
http://www.hhs.gov/ociio/regulations...child_faq.html

[whiteboinoob]

Others might have a better idea but my suggestion is to raise the question the AG office as to the definition of resident with respect to LTCF issuance (18 Pa CSA 6109) and how it would apply to a Pa residing college student.

Just for a lark you could also ask the question of the Phila licensing department but I don't expect that their answer would be dispositive if they deny your 'residency'.

As to your NJ/insurance issue - you're getting into a gray area. The issue revolves on whether you maintain a home in NJ with the intention of returning to it after your college efforts.

BTW I not certain but I thought that the Obamacare extension to 26 year olds is now in effect and it didn't require your residing with the parents. Check this out and, if that is indeed the case, convert to a Pa license and you're good to go on all accounts without losing you insurance.

Thanks for all your in depth responses. They are greatly appreciated. I will have to call the AG office in the next few days on a day off and ask. I am having a look in to the Obamacare, but having a hard time finding concrete evidence stating that I will remain under her care even if I reside in another state. I did, however, see that they have changed the definition of dependant, not based off living at home or being in school but now to any person under the age of 26

[tl_3237]

Thanks for all your in depth responses. They are greatly appreciated. I will have to call the AG office in the next few days on a day off and ask. I am having a look in to the Obamacare, but having a hard time finding concrete evidence stating that I will remain under her care even if I reside in another state. I did, however, see that they have changed the definition of dependant, not based off living at home or being in school but now to any person under the age of 26

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/provis...ult/index.html
http://www.hhs.gov/ociio/regulations...child_faq.html