Philly Florida "Loophole" Bill

[phillykev]

OMFG, they are dumber than I thought, their rationale from that link is:

DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON: There
19 are -- I believe that the reciprocal
20 states on the Attorney General's website,
21 there are seven states that people
22 have -- that he has approved as having
23 reciprocal arrangements with
24 Pennsylvania. That is Colorado, Idaho,
25 Indiana, Louisiana, Montana, North Dakota
11
1 12/14/10 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 100722, ETC.
2 and Utah. Those are the ones that are
3 referenced in the amended bill, because
4 we have reciprocal arrangements with
5 those states and if a person has a
6 license in those states, they've already
7 passed the minimum test. All others are
8 not recognized because we do not have
9 reciprocity with any other states.

That statement is completely false. The PA Atty General site states those are category 2, those with statutory reciprocity. They skipped over the 17 states with written agreements for reciprocity in PA, including Florida. Freakin' tools.
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

[Devrbd]

Is there a quick and easy answer to my question?

This should help. Page 10-11 from the linked transcript.

DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON: There are -- I believe that the reciprocal states on the Attorney General's website, there are seven states that people have -- that he has approved as having reciprocal arrangements with Pennsylvania. That is Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Louisiana, Montana, North Dakota and Utah. Those are the ones that are referenced in the amended bill, because we have reciprocal arrangements with those states and if a person has a license in those states, they've already passed the minimum test. All others are not recognized because we do not have reciprocity with any other states.

[FNG19]

Anyone have any idea why they selected those states and not any of the others with reciprocity?

I bet the listed states require that one have a license from their home state before issuing. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the calculus. Yet another end-run.

[mrjam2jab]

oh the irony here...

8 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON: That's

9 the purview of the Attorney General.

10 It's actually found in Pennsylvania

11 Control -- Criminal statutes, Section 18,

12 Section 6109, and it's actually a

13 requirement on the state Attorney General

14 yearly to take a look at each of these

15 states, take a look at what procedures

16 they have in place and to offer

17 reciprocity in Pennsylvania if they

18 change certain things in their matter, in

19 their laws.

20 It is incumbent on the state

21 Attorney General to follow the laws as

22 they are applied. This is a state law,

23 and I would assume that the Attorney

24 General, being the highest state official

25 and state law enforcement official, would follow the law.

[inrem]

I bet the listed states require that one have a license from their home state before issuing. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the calculus. Yet another end-run.

Nope. Utah issues non-resident licenses via the mail just like Florida. Except you need to go to a course with a Utah licensed instructor and a Utah CCW is cheaper/easier to renew.

[father-of-five]

I got past all of the emotionally charge wording like "absurd" and "assault weapons ban," but these guys really have no idea what they are talking about. They know their emotions, not the facts. I guess that they are angry that Pennsylvania is no longer a "may issue" state. The clueless city council does not even realize that Pennsylvania issues nonresident carry permits!

If the City Council is really worried about things like "black on black" crime and why it is reportedly on the increase, maybe they should be looking at gang violence rather than blaming and limiting law abiding citizens.
Alas, I vent...

Does anybody have an idea how long it will take the state court system to strike down this law? This is clearly a situation of the city trying to play by different rules than everyone else in the state.

I was born there, but it seems like the "City of Brotherly Love," is becoming "The City of the Garden state across Delaware," when it comes to freedoms.

[phillykev]

Nope. Utah issues non-resident licenses via the mail just like Florida. Except you need to go to a course with a Utah licensed instructor and a Utah CCW is cheaper/easier to renew.

Reading throught that crap that they call a legislative session, it sounds like the primary rationale and objection to FL permits is because they are issued by the Dept. of Agriculture, not the police. They even mention that Florida requirements are more strict (requiring training) but their problem is issuance is not performed specifically by the police, even though the background check is the same.

Darrel Clarke said it best, "There's state law, there's Darrel Clarke's law, and then there's reality."

Hey DUMMY...reality is STATE LAW. Not some hybrid of that and Darrel Clarke's law you imbecile!

[soberbyker]

In case anyone from the Philadelphia city government is reading this I'll make it easy for ya, the states listed here are ALL of the states the Pennsylvania Attorney General (PAG) has stated are in reciprocal agreement with Pennsylvania. As you can plainly see there are more than the 7 you list in your revised bill.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184 (PAG website)


Category 1: States that have entered into written reciprocity agreements with Pennsylvania. (Title 18 Pa.C.S.A. § 6109(k))
The following states have entered into formal written reciprocity agreements with Pennsylvania under section 6109(k) of the Uniform Firearms Act. These agreements provide for reciprocal recognition of valid licenses/permits issued by both states. Recognition in Pennsylvania is based on the individual's issuance of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence.

Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, West Virginia, Wyoming.

Category 2: States that have statutory reciprocity under 6106(b)(15) of the Uniform Firearms Act.
The following states have been granted statutory reciprocity without a formal written agreement under 6106(b)(15), based on the determination of the Attorney General that the other state has granted reciprocity to Pennsylvania license holders, and that the other state's laws governing firearms are similar.

Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Louisiana, Montana, North Dakota, Utah.

.

[father-of-five]

The impression I get from the city council is that they want a may issue system like New Jersekstan, where they claim to allow their citizens these freedoms, but rarely ever do, claiming that they are safer with only police having the guns. New Jew Jersey Attorney General loves to talk about how unsafe guns are when they are "misused" and "accidentially discharged," reportedly making communities unsafe. With this mentality, Philadelphia will never issue permits.

I also get the impression that Philadelphia leans toward the "may issue" mentality with carry permits, and then they get offended when another state that better recognizes the rights of citizens, like Florida, issues them a permit based on their legal status, not the opinion of the police chief, who I believe is basically at the mercy of the Mayor and that opinionated city council that does not know reciprocity and gun facts.

If my assumptions are wrong, I apologize in advance. This stuff just has that really ugly New Jersey feel to it.

[FNG19]

Nope. Utah issues non-resident licenses via the mail just like Florida. Except you need to go to a course with a Utah licensed instructor and a Utah CCW is cheaper/easier to renew.

Ah, but there's a bill before the Utah assembly that will change that, so that you'll have to have a license from your home state before Utah will issue.

ETA: You will still be able to apply via mail (thanks, soberbyker, for pointing out the ambiguity!). It sounds like you won't be able to apply without having a permit from your home state, however, which is a pretty big change. Folks in CA, NJ, NY, etc, are really going to feel the pinch on this one.