Philly PD Not renewing LTC Gun Permits for 1 Month+ now

[inrem]

Why Reciprocity with Florida, Utah and other states is truly essential:

I am a Pennsylvania License to Carry holder and have been so for 5+ years. 59 days before expiration of my current LTC (as I was told, when I was first issued my LTC, that renewals could be processed 60 days prior to expiration), I went in for license renewal and went though fingerprinting, filled out additional questionnaire forms, and had about 5 minus of oral questioning (such things, from a list, as if I had ever pointed a gun at anyone). Note: I was eventually mailed a renewal application by the Philly PD (the mailed renewal came about 30 days before my LTC would have expired).

As per the Philadelphia Police Department voicemail (which I have been checking), their Gun Permit Unit has been closed since the PM of December 17th, 2010. The Philadelphia Gun Permit's voicemail has extended their "closed" time as the weeks went on, and today, January 18th, 2011 was the first date since December 17th that they have been open for business. My PA LTC expired about a week ago.

I went in to renew my LTC this morning, arriving before the office opened at 8:30AM. The Gun Permit Unit's voicemail does not and still does not indicate a problem. When the office opened this morning (and after waiting about 10 minutes), I was informed that that they are using a new system to issue LTC permits and that since the Police Commissioner has not signed off (or possibly signed something manually) on the new system, that Philadelphia could not process renewals. They do not know when the system to process renewals will be back on line, but instructed me to call and listen to their voicemail as to when things will be operational (of course, their voicemail last week and now does not indicate a problem, nor was their a notice on their office door this morning).

A thin white woman instructed me that I COULD NOT CARRY with my current permit until renewed.

A white officer stated that, due to the Philadelphia not being able to renew permits today, that my renewal approval letter (which says, "License MUST be picked-up by 1/23/2011" and "This letter DOES NOT give you the right to carry a concealed weapon. Only upon issuance of the License to Carry will the authority of carrying a concealed weapon be given") would be extended so that I could pick up my license at any time after January 23, 2011. The white officer was moderatly angered when I asked for something in writing to that effect. He then requested and I provided my driver's license. He then initialed the bottom of my renewal letter but DID NOT WRITE IN that my time for renewal was extended.

Bottom Line: The Philadelphia Police Department Gun Permit Unit is not my favorite organization. There is no reason to close the unit for an entire month - freaking issue paper permits if you have to. There is no PA legal reason for fingerprinting applciants and no reason (legal or otherwise) that fingerprinting renewal applicants should be mandated by the Philly PD or that two visits is the minimum required to renew a permit. If the Philadelphia Gun Permit unit was missing some "signature" to authorize the operation of their machines (after the office being closed for a month), they could have at least taken the digital photograph they have decided to require (or used the passport photo that must be included with each application) and MAILED BACK permits to those they would not renew today, AND ALSO STATE THAT "EXPIRED" LICENSES REMAIN VALID (RATHER THAN INVALID).

Bottom Line #2: I do not have great faith that I will be "allowed" to renew my LTC without additional problems if I do not comply with the statement on my current renewal letter that my license "MUST be picked-up by 1/23/2011" (it may be diffcult for me, as I will be out of town later in the week, and the 23rd is a Sunday, so today is the 18th and the last day before the 23rd that the Gun Permit Unit is opened is the 20th).

I am also very happy that I have a back-up Florida Concealed Weapons Permit that, with reciprocity, makes carrying in Philadelphia legal even with my Pennsylvania LTC now expired (the Philly PD Gun Unit being closed for a month and now being unable to process renewal permits).

[John-Pa]

Well that is not fair or really within Pa Law. First off, Pa. Code states that a LTC that expires is valid for 6 months thereafter. Careful though, in that Philadelphia "skips to their beat" and rules.

I have no suggestions what to do because even if you would be within Pa Code to continue to carry, the local police are the ones that decide to arrest or not.

In any event, please document this and sent all this information to Govenor Corbett's new Attorney General.

I would probably would wait until I had my renewed license in hand before I did that though. Again, not advice.

Hope many others give their comments.

Good Luck

[LittleRedToyota]

as noted above, you can legally carry on your expired LTCF for 6 months after the expiration date (as long as you are still eligible to be issued an LTCF).

the section of law that states that is Title 18, Chapter 61, Subchapter A (commonly known as the PA Uniform Firearms Act...or just UFA), Section 6106(b)(12).

§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.

...

(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not
apply to:

...

(12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry
a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and
that said license expired within six months prior to the date
of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for
renewal of the license.

i rather imagine the Philly PD would not own up to this reality, just as they don't own up to the reality that they consistently violate state law in their LTCF process. nonetheless, you actually can legally keep carrying.

[HiredGoon]

... He then initialed the bottom of my renewal letter but DID NOT WRITE IN that my time for renewal was extended.

Just address this part which stood out for me...

IMHO... Just having a sheriff's employee (deputy?) write on that paper that your "time for renewal was extended" would not change anything anyway.... from a legal standpoint.

[nlcrsn]

So why no lawsuit?

[pyld]

Until someone sues Philthy, this kind of stuff will continue.

[LBaker]

The answer is a statewide system based on statutory law. You don't go to the PPD or local sheriff for a drivers license and you shouldn't have to for a LTCF.

[IronSight]

The answer is a statewide system based on statutory law. You don't go to the PPD or local sheriff for a drivers license and you shouldn't have to for a LTCF.

I'm not hearing of any other counties being shut down for a month or unable to process renewals. Certainly sounds like a uniquely Philly problem, not something to do with the statewide system.

[soberbyker]

I'm not hearing of any other counties being shut down for a month or unable to process renewals. Certainly sounds like a uniquely Philly problem, not something to do with the statewide system.

A few weeks in DELCO:

http://forum.pafoa.org/delaware-14/1...ce-page-2.html
.

[IronSight]

A few weeks in DELCO:

http://forum.pafoa.org/delaware-14/1...ce-page-2.html
.

Thanks for posting a link to that thread, I'm going to make some phone calls then and see what I can find out.

I think I have an idea about what may be going on.