LTCF Dauphin County Photo ID requirements

[midtownchris]

So I have spent the better part of this morning trying to figure out if I need to take two forms of photo ID to apply for my LTCF. The county website states:

"You must bring with you a Pa Drivers License or a Pa ID card with a current address AND your previous permit or another form of photo ID and a document to verify your SS#"

So for a new application I need a DL, another ID and my SSN card? What has everyone else used as the second ID?

Thanks for any insight.
Chris

[MDJschool]

"You must bring with you a Pa Drivers License or a Pa ID card with a current address AND your previous permit or another form of photo ID and a document to verify your SS#"

So for a new application I need a DL, another ID and my SSN card? What has everyone else used as the second ID?

There's no requirement in the UFA that a person making application provide identification. § 6109 simply states that upon receipt of application, and with the payment of fee, the sheriff shall issue or refuse to issue within 45 days.

The SSN is optional and the form SP-4 127 as early as revision (08-2007) has included the notation that it is optional and added Privacy Act instructions. See this opinion regarding SSNs on LTCF apps (I think there's a followup order or opinion worth reading from that case but don't know where it is right now).

The sheriff's duty to investigate under 6109(d) is his and doesn't appear to place a duty on anyone else. Therefore a denial for 'accuracy of the information contained in the application' can only come from information combating the veracity, not the lack of information.

It may be that the single uniform thing that issuing authorities do across PA is take a PA DL/ID sometime in the course of licensing, either at the time of application or the time of pick up. If you want to acquiesce on that (because it's the standard for buying a firearm from an FFL), fine, but I really do not suggest bolstering the sheriff in creating these unlawful requirements. Since PA law requires that a person update PennDOT on their residence within 15 days of a change of residence, a PA DL/ID can't really be deemed insufficient to prove that. False identification to law enforcement is a crime under the UFA. The presumption is that a person will not break the law by failing to report their change of residence or by providing false identification, much like the presumption is that the legislature passes constitutional law (har har).

Of course, navigating the whims of a sheriff is always treacherous because with such a person and an uncaring judge following, you may altogether be unduly deprived of a PA LTCF. In doing anything but that which he commands, you could first try making application and only providing the PA DL/ID. You might also arrange a sitdown with the sheriff for a few minutes to have this issue fixed. Maybe you are prepared to make an appeal to the court of common pleas, with or without a lawyer. You should consider all of these things.

[MrVenneri]

I got my LTCF from the sheriff's office located in the courthouse in Harrisburg. I used my drivers license and my social security card and that was fine. I went in with my Father and he forgot his social security card and instead used a random bill that he had in his car with the last 4 digits of his social on it as a second form of ID, his first was his drivers license. It'll end up costing you $25 total, and the quality is rather...substandard IMO. I've herd claims of a faster turn around and a hard plastic card issued at the one in Halifax. It took two full weeks for mine to be processed and issued.

[MDJschool]

the quality is rather...substandard IMO. I've herd claims of a faster turn around and a hard plastic card issued at the one in Halifax.

There is only one lawful quality of license, and that is 'bad'. The legislature told the PSP to define that quality, the single character of the license, and the PSP did. There is no room for the unlawful plastic card issuance.

"The license to carry a firearm shall be designed to be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be in a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police." 18 Pa.C.S. 6109(e)(3).

37 Pa.Code. 33.115(a) defines the paper and the size, and that it is a three-part form, and 37 Pa.Code. 33.115(d) says the original goes to the applicant. 37 Pa.Code. 33.131 says that the PSP prints up some forms and you can get them by contacting the PSP.
See http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-car...ml#post1157200 for more.

[MrVenneri]

Hmm that's interesting...Mine is a paper card that is laminated and poorly trimmed, as is my fathers. My friends is a hard plastic card with no laminate. The credentials printed on the cards are identical, besides the obvious...and I know it's petty to nit-pick but mine is flimsy and his is rigid like a credit card.

[rmodel65]

if they are forcing you to provide your SSN you can actually win damages over it...

[PA-Joe]

Staewide they are in the process of coverting over to the laminated paper LTCF.

[midtownchris]

if they are forcing you to provide your SSN you can actually win damages over it...

Perhaps but there would have to be some serious cash involved as i am not interested in just proving a point. The level of compensation would have to be greater than the level of frustration involved in trying to collect for damages.

[MDJschool]

Perhaps but there would have to be some serious cash involved as i am not interested in just proving a point. The level of compensation would have to be greater than the level of frustration involved in trying to collect for damages.

Maybe there isn't enough value for you in pursuit of the SSN through that avenue, but the cost of doing nothing (i.e. trying to avoid the requirement, and/or filing an appeal to a denial) to challenge the situation is the downward spiral into tyranny. Every failure to act is a chance that the public official will recognize that he can get away with more and more, and then that's what he'll do.

Your question was "So for a new application I need a DL, another ID and my SSN card?" Either the answer is no, or you already answered it when you said "AND your previous permit or another form of photo ID and a document to verify your SS#". Now, you must have come here to ask for an answer like that which I gave you; otherwise, you'd have called, or will call, the sheriff's office to see what he wants (1 ID, 2 ID, or 2 ID + SSN, etc.)

So why don't you just tell us how far you are willing to go?

[wa3ra]

statewide they are supposed to be switching over to the 'drivers license' card; the form is triplicated in the computer and the card with your picture, taken on the spot, is to be issued and signed in front of the issuing officer. One copy stays with the Sheriff, and the third goes to the state.