State Constables, the best kept secret in PA.

[bort]

[QUOTE=Adam-12;2143330]That was certainly not clear.



The courts have nothing to do with it. THE STATUTE gives constables arrest power. Which is why we are covered by LEOSA, unlike sheriffs and their deputies.



The arrest power we have is ON VIEW. You keep mentioning probable cause. Why? It suggests you don't know what you're talking about.



False. Constables' arrest power includes breaches of the peace. Your powers of common-law arrest DO NOT. Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Have you read the statute?



A constable is an elected head of government office. You're making stuff up at this point.



Do you understand how that differs from citizen's arrest nope.



This is true. It's AFTER the arrest that problems begin. The constabulary has powerful enemies in H-burg, and they have worked together to block our access to JNet, deny us ORI numbers, and not only refuse to train us on arrest procedures, but actually teach us in basic training that we have no arrest authority. The PCCD is in on it, because they do not regulate constables--they only regulate COURT SERVICES by constables. If they convince us that court services are all we can do, then they get complete control over constables.[/Q

The Courts have everything to do with it. Thats why I bring up probable cause. A constable can't arrest for litering or other small breaches of peace same as a citizen because you have no further abilitis to do anything. If the Police say we arent citing or arresting for that a constable could get in serious trouble for arresting them.

Everything you write is double talk to try to give a better appearence to your argument. Find charging documents other then private criminal complaints fom constables then there is your proof.

What do you consider a breach of peace that a constable can arrest for that a citizen can not? Could you provide an example so I have an idea?

[twency]

...
What do you consider a breach of peace that a constable can arrest for that a citizen can not? Could you provide an example so I have an idea?

Vagrancy is one example. A constable may arrest on view for this breach of the peace, while there is no corresponding citizen's arrest power. The arrest powers of a constable are defined in 13 PA C.S. § 45. There's some discussion of the constabulary power here: http://www.lgcpa.org/thepdfs/19.pdf.

(In PA, citizen's arrest is limited to a specific subset of felonies. I don't have the list handy at the moment but I can probably find it for you if you can't find it yourself.)

[bort]

O.k. there it is. Now what a Constable just arrested me for that perticular crime and I am in his custody. Now what? Cite me? turn me over? Or how about I sue him for arresting me with the fact that there is no due process since thats all he can do is keep me in his custody.

[twency]

O.k. there it is. Now what a Constable just arrested me for that perticular crime and I am in his custody. Now what? Cite me? turn me over? Or how about I sue him for arresting me with the fact that there is no due process since thats all he can do is keep me in his custody.

You're going to sue him for doing something he's expressly statutorily empowered to do? Good luck with that.

[PowerPM]

Adam 12-

Quote:
A constable is just kinda stuck after they take custody of said individual since they need a Police Dept. to follow thru.
This is true. It's AFTER the arrest that problems begin. The constabulary has powerful enemies in H-burg, and they have worked together to block our access to JNet, deny us ORI numbers, and not only refuse to train us on arrest procedures, but actually teach us in basic training that we have no arrest authority. The PCCD is in on it, because they do not regulate constables--they only regulate COURT SERVICES by constables. If they convince us that court services are all we can do, then they get complete control over constables.

Is the political oppression from the municipal chiefs of police or the legislature not wanting a second top cop that can be impartial to the actions of the police department.... Sorta like a municipal sheriff who has parallel authority to the municipal chief( 1 elected and 1 hired by the tax payers)?

[bort]

You're going to sue him for doing something he's expressly statutorily empowered to do? Good luck with that.

Thats a weak statement. You have to give arested individual due process. So like I said I am in a constables custody for that, now what? fill me in on my due process that I am entitled to. Where did he file the charge when does he decide to release me? All the stuff that goes with them taking my freedom from me. You can;t just do it because some statute you have to follow thru and they can't.

[twency]

Thats a weak statement. You have to give arested individual due process. So like I said I am in a constables custody for that, now what? fill me in on my due process that I am entitled to. Where did he file the charge when does he decide to release me? All the stuff that goes with them taking my freedom from me. You can;t just do it because some statute you have to follow thru and they can't.

A "weak statement"? It's directly answers your scenario with a relevant fact.

"You can;t just do it because some statute"? When a statute says you can do something, that generally means you can do it.

A constable can turn over an arrested citizen to a LEO for processing, as has already been discussed in this thread. You claimed that constables had no arrest power beyond the citizen's arrest power held by any private citizen. That's not true. The statutory arrest powers of a constable are limited and awkward compared to those of a LEO, and doubtless more honored in the breach than the exercise, but they exist.

Incidentally a federal court has taken judicial notice of the existence those powers, because it was on that basis that a PA constable was found to be covered by LEOSA (and so not guilty of violating NY law due to federal preemption) when carrying a concealed firearm in New York. A private citizen would have no such luck were he to argue that his citizen's arrest power qualified him under LEOSA.

[Adam-12]

The Courts have everything to do with it. Thats why I bring up probable cause...

Probable cause has nothing to do with anything. Your mentioning it shows you don't know what you're talking about. Tip: when you don't know what your talking about, stop talking.

What do you consider a breach of peace that a constable can arrest for that a citizen can not? Could you provide an example so I have an idea?

A citizen can NEVER perform a common-law arrest for a breach of the peace. Common-law arrest applies to felonies you personally witness, NOT to breaches of the peace. Constables' arrest power applies to breaches of the peace, because the statute says it does. That you imagine citizens' arrest applies to breaches of the peace is another example of not knowing what you're talking about.

[Adam-12]

Adam 12-

Is the political oppression from the municipal chiefs of police or the legislature not wanting a second top cop that can be impartial to the actions of the police department.... Sorta like a municipal sheriff who has parallel authority to the municipal chief( 1 elected and 1 hired by the tax payers)?

it's pissing contests everywhere you look. PA State Police deeply resent that we have statewide jurisdiction; they believe only they should. Sheriffs resent our court work, which would otherwise fall to them. Municipal cops are the least antagonistic, although they despise constables as wannabes because "I'm the law around here." And the legislature hates us because we are in principle independent; they like their cops militarized, centralized, and easily fired.

I say in principle, because all we actually do is court work, 99% of the time. The mere fact that we could IN THEORY arrest a senator's son, and not be fired immediately, gives them hives. Which does happen--the party bosses in my borough warned me not to be like a predecessor of mine, who arrested the mayor's son for underage drinking. He didn't tell me the whole story, but insinuated that they ran someone against him in order to oust him, and also expressed disgruntlement that they couldn't just fire him.

Such things are incredibly rare, but even that remote threat is terrifying. By contrast, cops can be relied on never to arrest important people or other cops, except when forced to.

[Adam-12]

Thats a weak statement. You have to give arested individual due process. So like I said I am in a constables custody for that, now what? fill me in on my due process that I am entitled to...

I already told you, the police book you on our behalf. This only works when you have a good relationship with the local cops, but many of us do. If the police refuse to accept custody, we could be fucked, and that has happened also. But plenty of people have been arrested by constables for on view offenses, booked by the local police, and charged like any other defendant. You obviously don't know this, which makes me wonder why you're so keen to argue something you know nothing about.