My Quest for Legal Carry....Or Not

[VinF88]

So after talking on another thread something rather unsettling came to light.

My Story: I am a 19 y/o Law abiding Citizen that has recently began to take control in the family business. Since ill be there at all hours of the day and night i wanted a way to carry but was faced with one having to be 21 to apply for a LTCF.

Late October i came across an idea that another member explained.

As most of you know an eighteen year old can apply for a Maine Non-Resident Permit to Carry. After receiving Maine i would use that to apply for a New Hampshire Non-Resident Pistol/Revolver (CWP) which Pa accepts under reciprocity. Long story short, i received my Maine and sent the NH paperwork the following day. I haven't gotten a response yet because this was only a few days ago, however i stumbled across this today on NHs website.

PLEASE NOTE: The State of New Hampshire will only recognize resident concealed handgun licenses from these states. Concealed handgun licenses issued by the State of New Hampshire to out-of-state residents are ONLY valid within the State of New Hampshire or within a state other than the licensee’s home state that reciprocally recognizes New Hampshire nonresident concealed carry licenses.
http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/n...ing/plupr.html

Basically this makes my "quest" null and void...or does it?

AFAIK there has been no changes to NH statutes or the Reciprocity agreement between PA and NH. Not only does it mess me up but essentially anyone who has a NH permit cant use it in pa if they live here.

Anyone have a clue on whats going on?

[ungawa]

It's very strange. I wouldn't push my luck.

Right now, you have a "license from any other state." I BELIEVE that means you can OC in a car and transport your handgun around. Check that yourself.

You are probably OK to OC, but check yourself. Also, it's been a while since I've looked at the laws, but you might want to see if you can CC at your business if you have ownership of it. This doesn't apply to me, so I forget if that's NJ or PA law. But I THINK you should be able to OC and do so in a car with your out of state license regardless.

[donm]

PLEASE NOTE: The State of New Hampshire will only recognize resident concealed handgun licenses from these states. Concealed handgun licenses issued by the State of New Hampshire to out-of-state residents are ONLY valid within the State of New Hampshire or within a state other than the licensee’s home state that reciprocally recognizes New Hampshire nonresident concealed carry licenses.
http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/n...ing/plupr.html

Basically this makes my "quest" null and void...or does it?

New Hampshire, like several other states, doesn't recognize non-resident licenses from other states; Pennsylvania does. Some states don't extend reciprocity to anyone under 21; Pennsylvania has no such restriction. I think it's legal, but like most everything associated with firearms it's not without risk.

[tl_3237]

There may be a way depending on exactly what your relationship is with the business. Please provide further details such as are you the owner, part-owner, manager, etc.

Is this the gas station???

Yeah I agree. This story hits home especially for me because my father and I own a gas service station just like the one in this case. I carry without a license right now when I'm there because I'm not yet 21. Personally I feel bad that this guy was made an example of because he was just following the statute as it seems written. He goes to work there every morning; seems fixed enough to me.

and was the question answered in http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...-case-law.html or is this a different situation?

You already know of the discussion about the NH issue at http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...ship-18-a.html

[donm]

I BELIEVE that means you can OC in a car and transport your handgun around.

I'm not aware of any legal distinction between concealed and open carry in a vehicle. You're legal to conceal with a license from any state.

[press1280]

So after talking on another thread something rather unsettling came to light.

My Story: I am a 19 y/o Law abiding Citizen that has recently began to take control in the family business. Since ill be there at all hours of the day and night i wanted a way to carry but was faced with one having to be 21 to apply for a LTCF.

Late October i came across an idea that another member explained.

As most of you know an eighteen year old can apply for a Maine Non-Resident Permit to Carry. After receiving Maine i would use that to apply for a New Hampshire Non-Resident Pistol/Revolver (CWP) which Pa accepts under reciprocity. Long story short, i received my Maine and sent the NH paperwork the following day. I haven't gotten a response yet because this was only a few days ago, however i stumbled across this today on NHs website.

PLEASE NOTE: The State of New Hampshire will only recognize resident concealed handgun licenses from these states. Concealed handgun licenses issued by the State of New Hampshire to out-of-state residents are ONLY valid within the State of New Hampshire or within a state other than the licensee’s home state that reciprocally recognizes New Hampshire nonresident concealed carry licenses.
http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/n...ing/plupr.html

Basically this makes my "quest" null and void...or does it?

AFAIK there has been no changes to NH statutes or the Reciprocity agreement between PA and NH. Not only does it mess me up but essentially anyone who has a NH permit cant use it in pa if they live here.

Anyone have a clue on whats going on?

You already have a legal option in PA-Open Carry. 18 is the minimum age to OC,but don't carry in a vehicle. If you're looking to CCW, I'd check the PA code first. Many states will accept reciprocal permits only if the holder is 21 or older.
The quote from NH is a little weird. I would think it's up to PA whether to allow a non-resident NH permit for a PA resident, not the other way around.

[VinF88]

There may be a way depending on exactly what your relationship is with the business. Please provide further details such as are you the owner, part-owner, manager, etc.

Is this the gas station???



and was the question answered in http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...-case-law.html or is this a different situation?

You already know of the discussion about the NH issue at http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...ship-18-a.html

I didn't want to dodge around the do I own it or half own it or what ever. Currently my father is the proprietor so that takes away the fixed place of business according to the case law.

My intentions were to be within Pa statutes with a NH permit under reciprocity. I know I'm able to oc at 18 but most of the time concealment is desierable. according to statutes I can have a firearm in a vehicle I'm occupying with the Maine alone. The new Hampshire was so I could have a firearm concealed state wide.

[donm]

I would think it's up to PA whether to allow a non-resident NH permit for a PA resident, not the other way around.

It is, and Pennsylvania has no such restriction. Of course, when the folks in Philly realize this they'll begin whining about the "New Hampshire Loophole."

The same scenario exists with Florida -- they do not recognize non-resident licenses from any other state but Pennsylvania obviously does recognize their non-resident licenses.

Some reciprocity agreements do have an age condition -- I don't see one here:
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploa...0Agreement.pdf

[acosenza2]

It is, and Pennsylvania has no such restriction. Of course, when the folks in Philly realize this they'll begin whining about the "New Hampshire Loophole."

The same scenario exists with Florida -- they do not recognize non-resident licenses from any other state but Pennsylvania obviously does recognize their non-resident licenses.

Some reciprocity agreements do have an age condition -- I don't see one here:
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploa...0Agreement.pdf

SHHHHHHH! Ears of liberals in Philly are starting to perk up. It is sort of like spidey sense, except it works when they have the opportunity to bitch about someone else's freedoms.

[PA Traveler]

I am not a lawyer. And before I'd rely on this information I'd want to talk with one... one who I think knows his way around PA Firearms law.

That said...

PLEASE NOTE: The State of New Hampshire will only recognize resident concealed handgun licenses from these states. Concealed handgun licenses issued by the State of New Hampshire to out-of-state residents are ONLY valid within the State of New Hampshire or within a state other than the licensee’s home state that reciprocally recognizes New Hampshire nonresident concealed carry licenses.

Good news: PA recognizes NH. Bad News: PA is your home state, which the above appears to invalidate. I had to read it three times before that dawned on me.

And since under reciprocity you still need to know and observe the laws of the state you are in at the time, there's the whole A21 question.