Growing Animosity in the forum

[ChamberedRound]

All,

Just wanted to comment on some of the posts I've seen as of late on the forum, as it seems like tempers are flaring up over some silly stuff. Please note that these are just my opinions, so if you don't agree then don't take my advice. However, I think we all, new members and old, have a responsibility to keep this site friendly, courteous, and informative. I have always felt a spirit of camaraderie in the interactions of posters in the past, and I want to see that spirit continue as this site continues to succeed and grow.

To the New Members

I know it's already been said (and I also believe it's in the forum rules), but please make use of the search function. We all know searches are a PITA, but there is a lot of information to be had here which can easily be searched on.

If you've tried to search on a topic, can't find anything, and post about it, mention that you tried searching in your post. Then, other users at least know you tried to search and may be more willing to help out by posting a link.

Understand that when you post something that others have already discussed, they see it as redundant and counter-productive. It's not that anyone's trying to discourage new users, it's just that everyone here wants to keep the site useful. If you feel you're being unfairly berated, talk to Dan (user danp, the Owner/Admin). Believe me when I say that Dan is extremely fair, and usually deals with these situations appropriately. If there's a problem reported to him, it will be addressed properly.

To the Existing Members

New members who are asking questions or making comments shouldn't be immediately rebuffed with a "search the forum" or "that's already been posted"; it's rude and confrontational. If you have the time to make such a post, at least make it productive: be courteous and post a link to the article which you claim has already been posted. This way, you not only prove it's already been posted to all members, but those not previously part of the discussions might learn something as well. Everyone can then be made aware of a topic they didn't realize had already been discussed, which will help to further minimize redundant posts in the future.

No need to criticize the newbies, we all know they're new. That's why there's a post count

To Everyone

We all have different personalities and attitudes, so some people might respond to something you say differently than you might expect. Don't perpetuate or create an off-topic argument by continually responding; make your point and move on. Otherwise, the entire forum becomes a bunch of off-topic, hijacked threads of nothing but bickering, which makes this site less useful to everyone. Debate is OK, OFF-TOPIC debate and arguments are not. More importantly, Dan, Doug, and Co. are spending money to operate this site. For every useless argument that's started, they have to PAY MONEY in disk space to store it; seems like a huge waste of resources to me.

Feel the love, people, and let's keep this a fun site to visit!

[danp]

Pretty much exactly what I was going to post a thread on later, you beat me to it.

I also want to add that sometimes if you think someone's said something rude to you re-read it just to make sure. While it's very possible someone is being a jerk to you there are cases where the subtleties of language get lost over the Internet and something that sounds mean at first glance might just be poor wording.

On the other hand sometimes (and this is not meant for anyone on the forum, so far you're all great people) people are just jerks. If jerks do sign up in the future and bother you I'll do my best to keep them in line but try not to let a few jerks ruin your whole experience, just use the ignore function of the forum.

All in all you guys rule and are extremely helpful, for every post I've seen on this site that was "bad", I've seen about 1000 that absolutely kick butt and are full of useful information, and I think that's a pretty darn good ratio.

A lot of the forums I visit or used to visit were garbage because of how poorly members treated each other.

Lessons to keep in mind:

1. Old members need to be welcoming to new members and help them constructively get into the swing of things, even if this means overlooking some duplicate posts, and breaches of etiquette.
2. New members need to realize that old members have been here a while and know how things work and sometimes they bite, it's nothing personal.

Have a great day guys.

[Farbmeister]

WHy is it that EVERY TIME two opposing view have a disussion its considered hatefull?

I am assuming that this post is in direct relation to a thread about 'dynamic entries' that is using some moderatly graphic examples.

Let me just give you 2 cents worth of advice:

If you open up a Firearms related forum EXPECT there to be some discourse. Either in LEO tactics (who get harrased more than gun owners by LEO?) or time tested flame wars 'pistol vs revolver', 'tumble loaded rounds or not', 'inside the waisteband vs outside' etc that will forever grace the BBS's on the net, as long as its on topic let us do what what we want... DISCUSS THE TOPIC.

I've quit so many BBS's because mods get drunk on thier newly found powers to cast judgement over others that I have lost count.

Don't be heavy handed, and unless there are flagerany liability issues sit back and enjoy the ride.

Maybe YOU SHOULD REREAD YOUR OWN ABOUT PAGE. Its nicly worded and appears to be what all of us are doing.

[Farbmeister]

"More importantly, Dan, Doug, and Co. are spending money to operate this site. For every useless argument that's started, they have to PAY MONEY in disk space to store it; seems like a huge waste of resources to me."

If you are paying more than $2 a month for hosting you are getting robbed.

A google search will find 1000's of hosting comapnys that will easily run this low volume board for pennies a day.

10 years ago it was expensive to have a BBS... now a days a 10Gb web site and 50Gb of traffic is nothing... they GIVE that away.

[aubie515]

CR...well said my PC friend. I hope I'm not one that is saying...google or use search...even though people should try those options first...but some people might not know how to use those features.

This is why I like chat so much...ask a question and you get instant results...if the person you are asking knows the answer. For the questions that have been asked more than once...there are thousands of questions that haven't been asked...nothing wrong with asking...as long as the same person isn't asking the same questions.

[Frenchy]

"More importantly, Dan, Doug, and Co. are spending money to operate this site. For every useless argument that's started, they have to PAY MONEY in disk space to store it; seems like a huge waste of resources to me."

If you are paying more than $2 a month for hosting you are getting robbed.

Fab, the site is actually owned and operated on a server of one of the members and directors here, its not a cost factor. But when you find me a 10g site with unlimited bandwidth at $2 per month, I want to see it, better I want so see it operate and see whats on it, I used to do hosting, and $2 per month sites are just that, you get your $2 worth, as some one said to me once, what do you expect for the price of a starbuks coffee?

[ChamberedRound]

WHy is it that EVERY TIME two opposing view have a disussion its considered hatefull?

It's not every time. I've been a member of this forum awhile, and been part of a number of discussions where there were differing opinions. However, some of the posts as of late have seemed a bit harsh, from both new users and existing ones. Debate is fine; whining, complaining, and insulting as a tactic to further one's position in a debate is not.

I am assuming that this post is in direct relation to a thread about 'dynamic entries' that is using some moderatly graphic examples.

You assumed wrong.

Let me just give you 2 cents worth of advice:

If you open up a Firearms related forum EXPECT there to be some discourse. Either in LEO tactics (who get harrased more than gun owners by LEO?) or time tested flame wars 'pistol vs revolver', 'tumble loaded rounds or not', 'inside the waisteband vs outside' etc that will forever grace the BBS's on the net, as long as its on topic let us do what what we want... DISCUSS THE TOPIC.

See above.

I've quit so many BBS's because mods get drunk on thier newly found powers to cast judgement over others that I have lost count.

Don't be heavy handed, and unless there are flagerany liability issues sit back and enjoy the ride.

Maybe YOU SHOULD REREAD YOUR OWN ABOUT PAGE. Its nicly worded and appears to be what all of us are doing.

I don't think there's a single user here who will complain that danp or doug are heavy-handed. You'll find very few places on this site where posts were censored or removed.

Also, I'm not an admin or a moderator. I'm just a user who was commenting on what I saw. Like I said in my initial post, if you disagree, then don't take my advice.

"More importantly, Dan, Doug, and Co. are spending money to operate this site. For every useless argument that's started, they have to PAY MONEY in disk space to store it; seems like a huge waste of resources to me."

If you are paying more than $2 a month for hosting you are getting robbed.

A google search will find 1000's of hosting comapnys that will easily run this low volume board for pennies a day.

10 years ago it was expensive to have a BBS... now a days a 10Gb web site and 50Gb of traffic is nothing... they GIVE that away.

I know nothing about how much it's costing to host this site. However, my point still stands: given that a few guys are running this site AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE for the benefit of us all, it behooves us to prevent this site from turning into a big bitch session, for lack of a better term. It shouldn't matter how much it costs; just because it's cheap doesn't mean it's OK to waste space with pointless arguments. Again, see above.

CR...well said my PC friend. I hope I'm not one that is saying...google or use search...even though people should try those options first...but some people might not know how to use those features.

This is why I like chat so much...ask a question and you get instant results...if the person you are asking knows the answer. For the questions that have been asked more than once...there are thousands of questions that haven't been asked...nothing wrong with asking...as long as the same person isn't asking the same questions.

Thanks aub.

I wasn't specifically pointing fingers at anyone, merely commenting on posts which as of late seemed to be confrontational.

[aubie515]

I agree with your post though...while I may not like answering the same questions over and over again...I know that the person is looking to get answers to questions he/she may have, so I try to do my best if I can help that other person.

BTW, I'm meeting minidevil and we are heading to Elverson. We are also planning on shooting this Sunday as well...now that Drak is back home. You and anyone else is welcome to join us...Oh IM me so I can get your phone number. I believe you have my cell already, but I can give it to you again.

[danp]

WHy is it that EVERY TIME two opposing view have a disussion its considered hatefull?

I am assuming that this post is in direct relation to a thread about 'dynamic entries' that is using some moderatly graphic examples.

Let me just give you 2 cents worth of advice:

If you open up a Firearms related forum EXPECT there to be some discourse. Either in LEO tactics (who get harrased more than gun owners by LEO?) or time tested flame wars 'pistol vs revolver', 'tumble loaded rounds or not', 'inside the waisteband vs outside' etc that will forever grace the BBS's on the net, as long as its on topic let us do what what we want... DISCUSS THE TOPIC.

This stuff is fine, you guys can argue 9mm vs .45 to your hearts content, I'm not going to step in.

I've quit so many BBS's because mods get drunk on thier newly found powers to cast judgement over others that I have lost count.

So have I, it's one of the most annoying things on earth, admins/mods that don't do anything except drop the banhammer and poke their fingers into crap that isn't their business.

My policy is this: Not including spam and illegal content, I don't touch anything unless a member contacts me to get involved. I think only once I've actually deleted a user's comments as a result.

There's a careful balance between having a forum where everyone can say and do what they want and having a forum where people feel welcome. For the most part I lean towards letting people do what they want and telling the people who get their feelings hurt to suck it up. But now and then people do and say things that just aren't cool in which case I ask the parties to calm down a a bit. If that's being heavy-handed, than I am guilty as charged.

Maybe YOU SHOULD REREAD YOUR OWN ABOUT PAGE. Its nicly worded and appears to be what all of us are doing.

I wrote our about page. CR is a member.

[NESTO]

Hey Frenchy, 2 bucks for a Starbucks coffee is actually a pretty good deal