Rifle sale

[buxbandit]

Does a private rifle sale have to be conducted at a FFL?

Thanks

[SharpShooter88]

No but to cover your ass a Bill of sale and someone with a Drivers license (at least an ID) and preferably a LTCF to show eligibility of ownership. I think you can go to an FFL and pay to have them do the PICS check but that can be an inconvienience, it is easier if the purchaser just brings an LTCF. If he doesn't have one like I said then you may want to consider the alternative.

[tl_3237]

Does a private rifle sale have to be conducted at a FFL?

Thanks

No - provided BOTH the buyer AND seller are Pa residents. If they have different states of residence then the transfer of possession MUST be through an FFL.

[markshere2]

No but to cover your ass a Bill of sale and someone with a Drivers license (at least an ID) and preferably a LTCF to show eligibility of ownership. I think you can go to an FFL and pay to have them do the PICS check but that can be an inconvienience, it is easier if the purchaser just brings an LTCF. If he doesn't have one like I said then you may want to consider the alternative.

I won't buy a long gun from anybody BUT an individual anymore.
And for a long gun, I won't go through any process that enters my name into the illegal database the PSP are maintaining.

Handguns .... well, I comply with the laws of the Commonwealth, but I ain't happy about the de-facto registration of the firearm in my name.

[SharpShooter88]

I won't buy a long gun from anybody BUT an individual anymore.
And for a long gun, I won't go through any process that enters my name into the illegal database the PSP are maintaining.

Handguns .... well, I comply with the laws of the Commonwealth, but I ain't happy about the de-facto registration of the firearm in my name.

Do as you please, but if you want to buy a gun from me and I ask to see your LTCF and you don't have one...don't bother...I am not getting busted for selling a firearm to a crackhead...(I am not saying you are a crackhead...Just used it to entertain my end of the story)

[Steve_NEPhila]

Do as you please, but if you want to buy a gun from me and I ask to see your LTCF and you don't have one...don't bother...I am not getting busted for selling a firearm to a crackhead...(I am not saying you are a crackhead...Just used it to entertain my end of the story)

That is not exactly proper. You are only criminally liable if you know before the sale that the person you are selling to is a prohibited person. If you have no reason to believe or know that the person you are selling a long gun to is prohibited then you are not liable. Asking for an LTCF proves nothing and is no guarantee of legal immunity. You may think that an LTCF is some kind of badge of "good person" but it is not.

If I were selling a long arm I would ask for proof of age and residency and that is it. I have no responsibility to make sure the person is not prohibited, yet I have a responsibility not to sell to someone I know is prohibited. I do not believe in background checks, and I do not think it reasonable to demand an LTCF from someone who is buying a long arm.

[thebearpack]

If I were selling a long arm I would ask for proof of age and residency and that is it.

Out of curiosity, is even that much required? I've purchased two long guns from members here and it was a simple exchange in parking lots... to this day I don't know the sellers' names nor do they know mine. Conversely, I've sold a couple firearms and gotten a bill of sale each time. In my mind, if I can see that the buyer looks to be old enough and he signs a document verifying that he is not prohibited and can legally purchase the long gun, I'm happy. Am I not covered doing it that way?

[buxbandit]

if I can see that the buyer looks to be old enough and he signs a document verifying that he is not prohibited and can legally purchase the long gun, I'm happy.

In a free America that's all that should be necessary IMO.


Thanks for all the responses

[tl_3237]

Out of curiosity, is even that much required? I've purchased two long guns from members here and it was a simple exchange in parking lots... to this day I don't know the sellers' names nor do they know mine. Conversely, I've sold a couple firearms and gotten a bill of sale each time. In my mind, if I can see that the buyer looks to be old enough and he signs a document verifying that he is not prohibited and can legally purchase the long gun, I'm happy. Am I not covered doing it that way?

The issue is doing 'due diligence'. Surely you're not required to do a full background check on the buyer but there are laws the prohibit the seller from making certain transactions. Two of such laws say that the seller cannot transfer to underage and the seller cannot transfer to a resident of another state.

As to the former (underage), it would be reasonable to not require proof of someone OBVIOUSLY (ie to a reasonable person under the same or similar circumstances) over the minimum age but, as to the 2nd (non-resident), residency can only be ascertained by examination of appropriate documentation. There is a de minimis effort involved in asking for such proof as a DL and, as such, I can readily see a court convicting you for not taking that small effort.

Bottom line, simple proof of residency and age should be part of any seller's transfer process to fulfill one's 'due diligence' responsibility.

[mickey01023]

No but to cover your ass a Bill of sale and someone with a Drivers license (at least an ID) and preferably a LTCF to show eligibility of ownership. I think you can go to an FFL and pay to have them do the PICS check but that can be an inconvienience, it is easier if the purchaser just brings an LTCF. If he doesn't have one like I said then you may want to consider the alternative.

Bill of sale, looking at IDs, looking at LTCF, i think even going through an FFL does not protect you against having charges brought against if something isn't right.