determining if a gun is lost / stolen?

[shepherd]

Hello, thanks to all of the knowledgeable people that post here, I've learned a lot searching through this site. I have 2 pistols that have come to me by unexpected means, and would like to find out if they were ever reported lost or stolen before I go any further with what to do with them. The first is a Browning FN 1906 that my father found while rebuilding a burned out house some 35 years ago. He cleaned it up, put it in a box, and forgot about it. The serial number dates to 1930, so it was probably brought back by some GI as these were never imported to the US for sale. The second is a Colt Jr. that came with the contents of an auction. I bought the contents of several storage lockers and this was in with a box of clothing. I was only bidding for the tools that could be seen, this was with the other stuff. For those unfamiliar, you can look into the garage, but can not go inside, or physically inspect things, and you have to take everything. The serial # dates to 1972, made in spain by Astra. My closest FFL is a bit of a curmudgeon, and was no help, despite the fact that I've spent a good bit of coin at his shop. Simply put, if they were reported lost or stolen, I don't want them. If they weren't then I will go from there. Any advice on what to do/ not do is appreciated.
SD

[streaker69]

I was going to say, take them to your local PD and have them run through NCIC, but seeing as you're in Philthy, that wouldn't be a good idea. Dunno what you should do if you're there. If it were me, I'd take it to one of the PD's where I know people and have them run it.

[shepherd]

Exactly, I know exactly what happens if I take them to the PPD, and there is no rewinding that scenario. The Browning FN is a particularly nice little piece of history, it would be cool to hold onto it.

[streaker69]

Exactly, I know exactly what happens if I take them to the PPD, and there is no rewinding that scenario. The Browning FN is a particularly nice little piece of history, it would be cool to hold onto it.

Would you like me to write an email to an officer friend and see if she can run them? You could just email me serial#'s and description and she might be willing to do that.

[shepherd]

Thank you, PM sent.

[LTCcarrier]

The problem is if someone runs them for you and it is a hit then they have some explaining to do and so would you. You might want to go the the Pa. State Police and explain the circumstances and ask them to run them for you. Plus the fact that they were removed from the house and not return to the owner might also be a problem.

[Pa. Patriot]

Hello, thanks to all of the knowledgeable people that post here, I've learned a lot searching through this site. I have 2 pistols that have come to me by unexpected means, and would like to find out if they were ever reported lost or stolen before I go any further with what to do with them. The first is a Browning FN 1906 that my father found while rebuilding a burned out house some 35 years ago. He cleaned it up, put it in a box, and forgot about it. The serial number dates to 1930, so it was probably brought back by some GI as these were never imported to the US for sale. The second is a Colt Jr. that came with the contents of an auction. I bought the contents of several storage lockers and this was in with a box of clothing. I was only bidding for the tools that could be seen, this was with the other stuff. For those unfamiliar, you can look into the garage, but can not go inside, or physically inspect things, and you have to take everything. The serial # dates to 1972, made in spain by Astra.

Nice guns to have fall in your lap. Enjoy them.

My closest FFL is a bit of a curmudgeon, and was no help, despite the fact that I've spent a good bit of coin at his shop.

He can't check them for you even if he wanted to. An FFL simply has no way to check if guns are stolen. ~end

Simply put, if they were reported lost or stolen, I don't want them. If they weren't then I will go from there. Any advice on what to do/ not do is appreciated.
SD

The reality is that these guns are no different than guns you purchased at a gun shop. Guns are not checked to see if they are stolen other than police running them through NCIC which has a list of guns reported as stolen.

Enjoy them, or sell them (legally), you really have nothing to check and no obligation to do so any more than a gun you purchased at the dealer.

The problem is if someone runs them for you and it is a hit then they have some explaining to do and so would you.

In my experience, no explaining necessary. But you would have to surrender them.

You might want to go the the Pa. State Police and explain the circumstances and ask them to run them for you.

If you ask a LEO to run it the gun they may or may not do it. Each dept may have different standards and procedures. I know one PSP leo that will run the gun if I ask. And I also know one twp LEO that says he will not run a gun through NCIC on request because that is not allowed per dept policy. NCIC request is only to be executed as part of their official duties. Now, if you went to the PD and asked them, they may file a report and run it as it is now "official", but again, I can only speculate how each PD would handle it, or not.
In short, they may or may not run the gun(s) upon asking. Short of calling CLEAN in harrisburg, to see if they have any official policy on NCIC access that's the best answer I can provide you.

Plus the fact that they were removed from the house and not return to the owner might also be a problem.

How?
What about the golf clubs recovered from the abandoned/disposed burned out building?
Abandon property is abandon property. Save for NFA registered items guns are no different than any other property other than the few requirements specified in the Pa. Uniform Firearms Act and US Title 18. And there is nothing I can find that would prevent the new owner from being exactly that, the new owner of these guns. If they were indeed found to be stolen, as the OP was originally concerned about checking, it would not matter how he acquired them, gun shop, inheritance, or other.

[WhiteFeather]

Pa Patriot covered most of the basic points.


"I believe" the PSP only holds the records for stolen guns for 20 years.

For everyone else that buys them at a FFL dealer no official PSP limit

So unless there is a recent record of someone filing a police report on these particular pistols you are pretty much just spinning your wheels or looking for more trouble than its worth, if you acquired them as posted you shouldn’t have a problem with ownership.

Prior to 1995 with the great expanse in the UFA it was not required to transfer handguns through a FFL dealer and you could do a private sale much like long guns, with the duty falling on the seller to retain the records as it’s a done deal year ago it really doesn’t matter what it was like before 1995 in PA except as a historical note. As there is no will to turn the clock back in PA.

The 35 year in dad's possesion - no problem

The other one shoudn't be a problem either.

Worst case depends on when you bought in auction (if you are required to prove ownership or how you got it) as there are so many year for a statue of limitations to be prosecuted, even at that there really is not a crime here.

Now if these are going to be your everyday carry guns, and the police want to hassle you at point of contact, illegally run the serial numbers in a clean check, with no crime committed.

ALL BETS ARE OFF when corruption of the letter of the law is by the ones supposed to uphold the law.


There are several cases on PAFOA of people having their firearm confiscated / hassled because of a pistol not being in the so called PSP database.

Seems like both are just abandoned property and are yours now.


Just always seem strange that so many people on PAFOA go above and beyond to, study, learn, obey along with trying to understand the complicated laws in the UFA to make sure they don’t break any laws.

When real criminals that intentional break them don't care what the (only words written in paper) laws are.

Often the DA's and judges along with many in the court system want to give the same criminals breaks with plea bargaining the firearm violation away, yet they will impose MAX sentence on any one of US that violates these same laws with no crime or hurting anyone, laws that were claimed to go after criminals as the reason for enactment often are used against US.

People including lots of gun owners still don't know why they should actively fight against more gun control in PA unless it specifically goes after real criminals intentions. At least till they are under the cutting edge of losing their rights, hiring a high priced lawyer with one of these gun control laws is used on them.

[Lougotzz]

Very well said white feather.

I want to state/ more of a question then anything. I called the PSP and asked the same question and he told me that when the transfer is complete the PSP run the handgun when entering it into the database. So I would assume if you bought a Handgun from a dealer and it is stolen/lost you will be contacted at one point.

[shepherd]

Thank you all for your thoughts and advice on this matter. The #s have been run, and both are clean. Very good points about dates and such, as to when guns were able to be sold without an FFL involved. That should be in an FAQ section, if it is, I missed it. I realize I could've kept them and been quiet about it, but prefer to have my paperwork in order on things like this. When I get it all finalized I'll post back, and add some pics of the Browning. The Blueing is gone, and it has some pitting, but is a very early model and quite cute. If we've missed anything, please add. FWIW, I got an understanding member of the Virginia State Police to check it, through a friend with the understanding that if it came up hot, I would surrender it ASAP.