centerfire century bulgy ak74 keyholing numbers

[glockmaster]

Hey,
just wanted some input from people who have one of these rifles and experienced this "keyholing" problem (or not) that I've read about online. Just want to see how widespread a problem this is. I have one on order but am considering switching to a WASR2 if this problem is significant. I would like to keep the bulgy b/c I already have wood furniture i picked up to put on it, possibly prematurely i guess.

So..anyone?

Thanks!

[nfafan]

Run.

We have known evidence that the Cent Tantal's have had keyhole issues with their US-made, non-chrome-lined barrels. One would have to consider the empirical evidence that the US-made non-chrome-lined barrels in the Cent Bulgy's will be as-bad.

Cancel the order and get a WASR2/CUR2/SAR2/WUM2/ROMAK2 - whatever you can find; they are in the correct chambering and with a factory chrome-lined-barrel. You will be glad you did.

Edit:
There's a WASR2 bundle on our Classified as of now, 12/4, noon. Good freakin price too. East side of the state - where all the cool guns are always posted, unlike SWPA.

And unlike some classifieds - he actually has a PRICE listed instead of having us guess how much he wants for his item. How 'bout that!

[glockmaster]

Run.

We have known evidence that the Cent Tantal's have had keyhole issues with their US-made, non-chrome-lined barrels. One would have to consider the empirical evidence that the US-made non-chrome-lined barrels in the Cent Bulgy's will be as-bad.

Cancel the order and get a WASR2/CUR2/SAR2/WUM2/ROMAK2 - whatever you can find; they are in the correct chambering and with a factory chrome-lined-barrel. You will be glad you did.

Edit:
There's a WASR2 bundle on our Classified as of now, 12/4, noon. Good freakin price too. East side of the state - where all the cool guns are always posted, unlike SWPA.

And unlike some classifieds - he actually has a PRICE listed instead of having us guess how much he wants for his item. How 'bout that!

lol, thanks. I'll check it out.
Have you owned one personally though? I really want to get an accurate assessment from people who have experienced these occurences.

[IronButt]

I have a Century Bulgy that I got at the york Gun Show last Spring for $325. I've had no issues with it whatsoever.

[glockmaster]

I have a Century Bulgy that I got at the york Gun Show last Spring for $325. I've had no issues with it whatsoever.

Good to hear, theres one.

[Mity2]

Run.

We have known evidence that the Cent Tantal's have had keyhole issues with their US-made, non-chrome-lined barrels. One would have to consider the empirical evidence that the US-made non-chrome-lined barrels in the Cent Bulgy's will be as-bad.

Cancel the order and get a WASR2/CUR2/SAR2/WUM2/ROMAK2 - whatever you can find; they are in the correct chambering and with a factory chrome-lined-barrel. You will be glad you did.

I was one of unfortunate on who didn't listen to what others have said, and gave Century a chance to prove themself, and got burned.

I bought Century Tantal about a year ago, believing that what Century have said that the they have fixed the probrem with their Tantal with Keyholing issue by changing twist rate(from 1:9 to 1:8 or the otherway around), and using heavier projectile(most common 5.45x39 available at the time was Bulgarian mil sulp 50gr FMJ. Century claimed that bullit was too light. it needs to shoot 55gr or above to stabilize or some BS like that). I even bought Century's own brand of 60gr ammo that they suggest(called Hotshot).

Once barrel heated up - after 2 or 3 mags? - this is what my target looked like.



After contacting them 3 times in regard, Century even went as far as to tell me that Russian actually designed 5.45 to key hole to enhance its potential to cause more damage!
(Early ballistics tests done demonstrated a pronounced tumbling effect with high speed cameras upon impact. Some Western authorities believed this bullet was designed to tumble in flesh to increase wounding potential. It was believed that yawing and cavitation of projectiles was primarily responsible for tissue damage. Martin Fackler(a retired colonel in the US Army's Medical Corps) conducted a study using live pigs and ballistic gelatin demonstrating that the 5.45 mm round does not reliably fragment or cause unusual amounts of tissue disruption. Most organs and tissue were too flexible to be severely damaged by the temporary cavity effect caused by yaw and cavitation of a projectile. With the 5.45 mm bullet, tumbling produced a temporary cavity twice, at depths of 100 and 350 mm. This is comparable to modern 7.62x39mm ammunition and to (non-fragmenting) 5.56 mm ammunition. The average width of a human torso is 350 mm. But this happens AFTER IT IMPACT A TISSUE, not right after it leaves a barrel!)

I mean they are saying everything, except "Sorry,we F'd up with Tantal!"
They were taking returns for a while, and sending out new one(which key holed just as much), but towords the end, they were flat out saying that Keyholing Tantal can't be returnd, as 5.45 is designed to tamble, and its doing as what its designed to do.

I took a huge loss, and get rid of the beautifuly crafted POS.
I bought Century Yugo M70AB1 recently, and NEVER looked back...

So OP, like nfafun said, cancel the friggin order.
I know when you want something, and you ask what others think, you'll only hear what you want to hear, as I was just like you about year ago. People was telling me that they key hole. But few have claimed that the Century fixed the issue.
I don't give a shit what those goons says, print, and believe. Century Arms CAN'T get 5.45 right, since they aren't even admitting that the there is a probrem with Tantal anymore(and since we all believe that it was barrel causing all this issue, and NOONE can find any evidence that the Century have switched design/suplier of their 5.45 barrel, which we believe that the its a actualy made by GM) I have to presume that their Burgy 5.45 is no better then Tantal.
So i'd get their 7.62 version instead, which seems that the Goons over CAI did got those right(other then canted FSB that are commonly found with their WASR's...)
I'd recommend Yugo M70, rather then WASR tho...

[glockmaster]

I was one of unfortunate on who didn't listen to what others have said, and gave Century a chance to prove themself, and got burned.

I bought Century Tantal about a year ago, believing that what Century have said that the they have fixed the probrem with their Tantal with Keyholing issue by changing twist rate(from 1:9 to 1:8 or the otherway around), and using heavier projectile(most common 5.45x39 available at the time was Bulgarian mil sulp 50gr FMJ. Century claimed that bullit was too light. it needs to shoot 55gr or above to stabilize or some BS like that). I even bought Century's own brand of 60gr ammo that they suggest(called Hotshot).

Once barrel heated up - after 2 or 3 mags? - this is what my target looked like.



After contacting them 3 times in regard, Century even went as far as to tell me that Russian actually designed 5.45 to key hole to enhance its potential to cause more damage!
(Early ballistics tests done demonstrated a pronounced tumbling effect with high speed cameras upon impact. Some Western authorities believed this bullet was designed to tumble in flesh to increase wounding potential. It was believed that yawing and cavitation of projectiles was primarily responsible for tissue damage. Martin Fackler(a retired colonel in the US Army's Medical Corps) conducted a study using live pigs and ballistic gelatin demonstrating that the 5.45 mm round does not reliably fragment or cause unusual amounts of tissue disruption. Most organs and tissue were too flexible to be severely damaged by the temporary cavity effect caused by yaw and cavitation of a projectile. With the 5.45 mm bullet, tumbling produced a temporary cavity twice, at depths of 100 and 350 mm. This is comparable to modern 7.62x39mm ammunition and to (non-fragmenting) 5.56 mm ammunition. The average width of a human torso is 350 mm. But this happens AFTER IT IMPACT A TISSUE, not right after it leaves a barrel!)

I mean they are saying everything, except "Sorry,we F'd up with Tantal!"
They were taking returns for a while, and sending out new one(which key holed just as much), but towords the end, they were flat out saying that Keyholing Tantal can't be returnd, as 5.45 is designed to tamble, and its doing as what its designed to do.

I took a huge loss, and get rid of the beautifuly crafted POS.
I bought Century Yugo M70AB1 recently, and NEVER looked back...

So OP, like nfafun said, cancel the friggin order.
I know when you want something, and you ask what others think, you'll only hear what you want to hear, as I was just like you about year ago. People was telling me that they key hole. But few have claimed that the Century fixed the issue.
I don't give a shit what those goons says, print, and believe. Century Arms CAN'T get 5.45 right, since they aren't even admitting that the there is a probrem with Tantal anymore(and since we all believe that it was barrel causing all this issue, and NOONE can find any evidence that the Century have switched design/suplier of their 5.45 barrel, which we believe that the its a actualy made by GM) I have to presume that their Burgy 5.45 is no better then Tantal.
So i'd get their 7.62 version instead, which seems that the Goons over CAI did got those right(other then canted FSB that are commonly found with their WASR's...)
I'd recommend Yugo M70, rather then WASR tho...

holy crap!
Sorry for your misfortune. I already have a wasr and a yugo m70, both in 7.62x39. Really wanted a cheap 5.45 b/c of the cheap ammo prices. This is really disappointing. Centerfire has the wasr 2 for only like $40 bucks more. Maybe i should call monday and switch it... I don't get it Century makes the bulgies and the wasrs?? Why does one not have problems and the other doesn't? doesn't make sense.

[Mity2]

Why does one not have problems and the other doesn't? doesn't make sense.

Its hard to ascertain the exact cause, since Century now denis that there are any probrems with Tantal as I stated above.

What is most commonly believed is that the barrel used in CAI Tantal, which believed to be produced by GM is infact bored much larger(something colse to bore of 5.56mm to it) then it needs to be, instead of what ever the proper bore for 5.45 should have been.
It was believed that bore was intentionaly made that way because ncorprat the chrome lined bore , as with original Polish barrels are, hence it would add some thickness to it.
For whatever the reason, however, CAI dicided against it(likely due to the cost).

Now, Im not certain what bore for 5.45 have to be, but I do know that typical chrome lining for bore is about 0.0030" ~ 0.0098" Which seems not much. But once barrel gets hot, like after 2 to 3 mags and beyound(And it gets HOT), and heat inevitably cause barrel to expands, hense bore gets even larger, there for rifling can no longer properly be seated to projectile, there for projectile comes out like football thats not spinning.

Now that sounds all fine, but if you read how thermal expansion work, you know that when any metal pipe gets hot, and expand, Coefficient of thermal expansion states that as outer serface gets larger, due to heat, inner serface would infact gets smaller(Sorry, I can't quite explain scientificaly. it follows complex formula. My dad, who is an chemical engineer is here, and trying to explain to me as to how it works, only suceeding me to fall a sleep).
So who knows...

Its likely a combination of several issue all working in a harmony to cause the whole keyholing issue. a

All I know is that Tantal Kit with original chrome lined barrel do NOT keyhole no matter what weight ammo is used...

[Steelblitz]

I havent seen any documented cases of keyholing 74's from century yet. I've got two of the century 74's and they are the most accurate AK's I have. Century tantals are a completely different story and the keyholing is old news with them but has zero bearing on the 74's.

[nfafan]

holy crap!

Sorry for your misfortune. <snip>
I don't get it Century makes the bulgies and the wasrs?? Why does one not have problems and the other doesn't? doesn't make sense.

Sorry for Mity2's issues too - those Tantals are so sweet looking! But...

Unlike the Century-built Bulgie AK-74's and Tantals, Century actually doesn't make any of the WASRs - they are all built in Romania and imported as low-cap sporters.

All Century does is contract out the 922-work to someone - they do the hi-cap jobs, TAPCO G2 FCG, sometimes the piston, and the stock-swaps. This is why Romy WASR2s (and SAIGA 5.45x39) have ORIGINAL European-spec chrome-lined barrels - while Tantals and Bulgies fo not.

Same for the pre-WASR2 CUR2/SAR2/ROMAK2/WUM2 - all have original Euro-barrels.


Now... all that said;

Is this the Bulgy AK-74 that you are looking at???

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/akagunssr85c-01.aspx

If so, then yes - this was imported as a low-cap Dragunov-stocked "sporty" gun with supposedly a chrome-lined Euro barrel - and YOU will have to do the 922-work and hi-cap job yourself.

Just be advised that there have been mixed stories of these "SSR85s" on the AK boards which is why I flushed this from my mind awhile ago. It seems like a good gun at first blush, but you will have to spend more on top of the purchase price to get it to the point of the WASR2 they also sell:

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/AKAGUN12.aspx

Just consider NOT buying THIS ONE!
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/akagun74.aspx