Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: "Just a Citizen"

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBi11 View Post
    When ask if your a cop, reply: "No I'm they're employer"
    Wrong. Saying your their employer denotes that you are their boss, etc.

    You are not their employer, boss, etc. Their Sgt, Capt, Chief, Mayor, etc is their boss.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: "Just a Citizen"

    Quote Originally Posted by Philbert View Post
    There's been a very unfortunate trend of late to militarize the civilian police, something I think ought to be resisted.
    What militarization? Wearing uniforms? Having a rank structure? Having a code of conduct? Addressing someone of a higher rank by their title, such as Sgt, Capt, Lt, Chief????

  3. #23
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    Lightbulb Re: "Just a Citizen"

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    Wrong. Saying your their employer denotes that you are their boss, etc.

    You are not their employer, boss, etc. Their Sgt, Capt, Chief, Mayor, etc is their boss.
    Wrong.

    We are indeed their bosses. In fact, we are their bosses's bosses.

    So, like a Sergeant Major is a private's boss, so too are we the police officer's boss, since a police officer is at the very bottom of the public servant food chain.

    So..............


    "Are you a police officer?"

    "Why do you ask?" is all that is sufficient.

    Next.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: "Just a Citizen"

    Quote Originally Posted by Yentl Marmelstein View Post
    Wrong.

    We are indeed their bosses. In fact, we are their bosses's bosses.

    So, like a Sergeant Major is a private's boss, so too are we the police officer's boss, since a police officer is at the very bottom of the public servant food chain.

    So..............


    "Are you a police officer?"

    "Why do you ask?" is all that is sufficient.

    Next.
    While I agree with you in theory if we extrapolate it a little further... They're all self-employed since they pay taxes.
    Police are paid to enforce laws. The politicians draft and make law. The bulk of the officers out there find it just as easy to let the lawyers and judges sort it out. Telling them that you are their boss during an encounter is a good way to take a huge step towards court. Sure there are knot heads out there but not all of them.
    I'll proudly tell anyone I'm an honest, law-abiding citizen but I do like your response.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: "Just a Citizen"

    If someone asks the "Are you a policeman?" question, you could always say, "No, I'm a step above that. Policemen are public servants - I'm the public."

    Pretty much the same as what was said earlier but it ought to set the questioner back a little...

  6. #26
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    Default Re: "Just a Citizen"

    I use the term "private citizen"

    And while I've never been asked if I'm a police officer, I may be inclined to reply with "No, I'm not a public servant of any type."

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    Wrong. Saying your their employer denotes that you are their boss, etc.

    You are not their employer, boss, etc. Their Sgt, Capt, Chief, Mayor, etc is their boss.
    The collective "We" are indeed their boss.
    Last edited by General Geoff; November 27th, 2010 at 10:19 PM.
    Any mission, any conditions, any foe at any range.
    Twice the mayhem, triple the force.
    Ten times the action, total hardcore.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: "Just a Citizen"

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    What militarization? Wearing uniforms? Having a rank structure? Having a code of conduct? Addressing someone of a higher rank by their title, such as Sgt, Capt, Lt, Chief????
    I'm thinking about the police / military convergence that is mostly due to the drug war and other "wars" that both the police and military get involved in, resulting in more cross pollination of the police with military personnel, training and equipment than I am comfortable with. Not that soldiers can't be good cops necessarily, they are just different jobs and I don't like the distinction being blurred.

    I think actually we have come back from the edge a bit after Waco, and latterly from the many deaths caused by unnecessary night time raids. Notwithstanding the odd goofball sheriff who decides his office needs a belt-fed .50 cal or some such.

    I don't say this to bash cops - I respect the police, all the more so because they are civilians policing civilians. That is something to be celebrated and preserved.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: "Just a Citizen"

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    Wrong. Saying your their employer denotes that you are their boss, etc.

    You are not their employer, boss, etc. Their Sgt, Capt, Chief, Mayor, etc is their boss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yentl Marmelstein View Post
    Wrong.

    We are indeed their bosses. In fact, we are their bosses's bosses.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBi11 View Post
    When ask if your a cop, reply: "No I'm they're employer"
    I get a chuckle out of people that say this; it smacks of self-importance. If I don't like what cop, firefighter or politician is doing, I have tools I can use that hold them accountable.

    We, the voting public, are not the "boss' of a cop, firefighter or politician. We are responsible for their oversight, their salaries and to some extent, the methods they use to do their jobs. Be we don't employ them, they are employed by a Gov't entity that we put into power. We can no more dictate to them directly than we can call up Muhtar Kent (CEO of Coca-Cola) and demand the return of Original Coke. We can file a complaint against them, we can start an internet campaign decrying their abuses and we can bring political pressure to bear on their supervisors, but they don't work for us. They enforce the laws we as a voting public tell them to.

    Don't like how they are doing their job? Get all your friends to write letters and vote those responsible out of office.

    Peace is the the first choice of a wise man; superior firepower a close second. ~ Me


  9. #29
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    Default Re: "Just a Citizen"

    We can file a complaint against them, we can start an internet campaign decrying their abuses and we can bring political pressure to bear on their supervisors, but they don't work for us.
    If they don't work for us, why are they called public servants?
    Any mission, any conditions, any foe at any range.
    Twice the mayhem, triple the force.
    Ten times the action, total hardcore.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: "Just a Citizen"

    Quote Originally Posted by General Geoff View Post
    If they don't work for us, why are they called public servants?
    Because they serve the community, not you.

    By some people trying to insist they are their "employers" is nonsense. As I said before, you are not their employer. If you were, then that would mean you are somehow in charge or can direct them in their day to day work.

    Again, you are NOT an employer. The city, town, borough, etc is the employer. You are not in my chain of command. You do not give me orders. You are not someone I go to looking for guidance or instruction, etc.

    You are NOT the employer of police, fire, EMS, refuse collectors, mayor, council, secretary, etc........or any one else that works for a municipality.

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