Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default question on Federal law, buying/selling handgun...

    I am having a debate with an antigunner and am trying to find the Federal law where it is forbidden to transfer a handgun to another person without an FFL doing it. (besides parent to child, grandparent to child etc.)

    I was reading this
    in which JayBell wrote
    Pertinent Federal Law:
    ...snip...
    3. Handguns can only be purchased from/through a FFL in your state of residence.
    Now I'm not in the habit of questioning people who know the law better than me, so i am going to assume I am just failing to find the info... looked here http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/ , Searched Google, searched pafoa.

    Care to give me a hand?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: question on Federal law, buying/selling handgun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate View Post
    I am having a debate with an antigunner and am trying to find the Federal law where it is forbidden to transfer a handgun to another person without an FFL doing it. (besides parent to child, grandparent to child etc.)

    I was reading this
    in which JayBell wrote


    Now I'm not in the habit of questioning people who know the law better than me, so i am going to assume I am just failing to find the info... looked here http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/ , Searched Google, searched pafoa.

    Care to give me a hand?
    My understanding is that Jaybells statement means they "can't be purchased from an out of state FFL", though technically they can, but must ultimately be transferred through an FFL in the purchaser's home state before possession can be taken.

    It is my belief that there is no federal law that prohibits the private transfer of handguns between two residents of the same state. Pennsylvania law prohibits it, but I do believe it is legal in other states. I think Virginia may permit this.
    Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: question on Federal law, buying/selling handgun...

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    My understanding is that Jaybells statement means they "can't be purchased from an out of state FFL", though technically they can, but must ultimately be transferred through an FFL in the purchaser's home state before possession can be taken.

    It is my belief that there is no federal law that prohibits the private transfer of handguns between two residents of the same state. Pennsylvania law prohibits it, but I do believe it is legal in other states. I think Virginia may permit this.
    Interesting. Thanks. I would be interested in knowing what states if any allow such a thing. I'll try Google again...

    The guy i'm dealing with is all worried about the gun transfer loophole... i'll start with no way to get a handgun without a backround check in pa, yet most gun crimes are committed with a handgun...

  4. #4
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    Default Re: question on Federal law, buying/selling handgun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate View Post
    Interesting. Thanks. I would be interested in knowing what states if any allow such a thing. I'll try Google again...

    The guy i'm dealing with is all worried about the gun transfer loophole... i'll start with no way to get a handgun without a backround check in pa, yet most gun crimes are committed with a handgun...
    Are you referring to the oft mentioned "gun show loophole"? If so, that title is a misnomer, as the same rules apply to both gun shows and any other transfer (at least in PA).

    Also, your starting statement should be amended a bit. There most certainly ARE legal ways to have possession of a handgun in PA without a PICS check.
    Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: question on Federal law, buying/selling handgun...

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    Are you referring to the oft mentioned "gun show loophole"? If so, that title is a misnomer, as the same rules apply to both gun shows and any other transfer (at least in PA).

    Also, your starting statement should be amended a bit. There most certainly ARE legal ways to have possession of a handgun in PA without a PICS check.
    Yes, the legal ways are, between... Married Spouses, Parents and children, and Grandparent to grandchild, provided that the recipient is at least 18 years of age, and not a prohibited person. right?

    Heres the link to his post... http://www.mennodiscuss.com/viewtopi...art=15#p288944

    later on he says

    "One of the reasons these laws are not obeyed by criminals is that we've built in a loophole to allow criminals to buy guns without showing identification, with no background checks, and with no written records. You can buy as many guns as you want. And surprise, surprise - 85% of all guns used in crimes involved this loophole. As far as I can tell, closing this loophole is probably the single most helpful change we can make in the law."

    That is what i am trying to address, but I have nowhere near the time he has to post and research.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: question on Federal law, buying/selling handgun...

    how about someone ASK ME what my statement means... and it means go check the Fed laws on activities...and the laws of the state you reside in.

    the federal portion is for INTERSTATE buying mostly

    In general, fed laws say "check your local laws for whats allowed between 2 people" but FEDERALLY you can buy a longarm rifle/shotgun at any FFL in any state if local laws allow it, but you can only buy handguns from a FFL in a state where you reside.

    Which therefore means, if you refer to #1 of my sticky (which you "snipped", if yer a resident of ONE state, and you want to buy from a unlicensed resident of another state, you have to use a FFL in either state for a longarm, or your resident state for a handgun

    as an interstate buyer, you CAN NOT do a "private transfer" between you and another person for a rifle, shotgun, or handgun, doing otherwise is a felony.


    as I ALSO wrote, this :

    "This FAQ is intended and written for PA residents only.

    If you reside in another state, please consult a legal representative in your own state to explain your states laws to you."

    answers:

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unli...ensed-transfer



    1. ATF Home
    2. Firearms
    3. Frequently Asked Questions
    4. Unlicensed Persons

    Unlicensed Persons Questions

    1. To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
    2. From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
    3. May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?
    4. May an unlicensed person obtain ammunition from an out-of-State source?
    5. Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition?
    6. Do law enforcement officers who are subject to restraining orders and who receive and possess firearms for purposes of carrying out their official duties violate the law?
    7. May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
    8. May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
    9. May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
    10. May a person who is relocating out of State move firearms with other household goods?
    11. What constitutes residency in a State?
    12. May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?
    13. May aliens legally in the United States buy firearms?
    14. May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?
    15. Are curio or relic firearms exempt from the provisions of the GCA?
    16. What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction?
    17. How do I obtain a classification from ATF for my “potato gun?”

    Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

    A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
    Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

    A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: question on Federal law, buying/selling handgun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate View Post
    I would be interested in knowing what states if any allow such a thing.
    It's actually legal in most states, though not here. http://opencarry.org/privatetransfers.html

  8. #8
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    Default Re: question on Federal law, buying/selling handgun...

    I don't believe federal law provides for transfer exemptions between parent/child, grandparent/grandchild or spouses. I believe that is PA law.



  9. #9
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    Default Re: question on Federal law, buying/selling handgun...

    Quote Originally Posted by donm View Post
    It's actually legal in most states, though not here. http://opencarry.org/privatetransfers.html
    Good map but I have an issue in one respect. IIRC private transfer between individual NJ residents does not require FFL involvement (how about that -- Pa is more restictive than NJ ). The only requirement is for the seller to assure that the buyer has the necessary NJFID for longarms or Pistol Purchase Permit for handguns and files whatever paperwork is required with the state after the transfer.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdevil73 View Post
    I don't believe federal law provides for transfer exemptions between parent/child, grandparent/grandchild or spouses. I believe that is PA law.
    Absolutely correct on both counts.
    IANAL

  10. #10
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    Default Re: question on Federal law, buying/selling handgun...

    Quote Originally Posted by tl_3237 View Post
    Good map but I have an issue in one respect. IIRC private transfer between individual NJ residents does not require FFL involvement (how about that -- Pa is more restrictive than NJ ). The only requirement is for the seller to assure that the buyer has the necessary NJFID for longarms or Pistol Purchase Permit for handguns and files whatever paperwork is required with the state after the transfer.
    I'm not entirely sure I'd call a PICS check at a local FFL "more restrictive" than a NJ Pistol Purchase Permit from my friendly local NJ police chief.

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