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November 8th, 2007, 07:01 PM #1Junior Member
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Round Point VS Hollow Point Bullets
I have been trolling on this site for a few weeks while doing some research on a first gun purchase. Decided on the XD 9mm subcompact for home defense / target practice.
Found an interesting video I thought some would enjoy, so that forced me to register. Round Points vs. Hollow Points... not ground breaking news, but a nice summary.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DaXcXVvRuJ8
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November 8th, 2007, 07:13 PM #2Banned
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Re: Round Point VS Hollow Point Bullets
in the first 15 seconds, there was already some bad information...in fact, the entire thing was pretty much either omitted critical information or was just wrong
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November 8th, 2007, 07:42 PM #3
Re: Round Point VS Hollow Point Bullets
What good is making this statement without the "proper" information. I'm not saying I disagree, in fact, my understanding of a hollow point isn't to fragment but to expand upon impact. It would just be nice to cite the misinformation, otherwise you've wasted everyone's time reading your post and your own time writing it.
"Because I'm an American." - MtnJack
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November 8th, 2007, 08:11 PM #4Junior Member
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Re: Round Point VS Hollow Point Bullets
Agreed, or perhaps he was just pointing out how true the quote in his signature is
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November 8th, 2007, 08:41 PM #5Banned
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Re: Round Point VS Hollow Point Bullets
Well, i figure people could just refer back to the 400 posts I have on this forum schooling people about terminal ballistics, but in light of your post, here's 401
the round nose is a traditional full metal jacket bullet, made to create a bigger hole in the target
the hollowpoint has a concave depression cut into the tip, designed to fragment into pieces.
the most effective bullet doesn't just punch straight through the target, it creates serious internal damage.
if this was a bad guy, he'd probably still be firing at the police officer
the bullet totally destroys the target
on the streets the hollowpoint gives the officer more chance of stopping the criminal in one shot
the hollowpoint expands on impact to nearly 3 times its size
the expanding effect means that the bullet dumps its power inside the body damaging more tissue than a round nose bullet
from about 1:26 on was pretty much correct
What they missed:
-The only thing that stops bad guys is blood loss and direct hits to the CNS. You need good shot placement first and foremost. Making good hits in the real world is the exception rather than the rule, so best to have lots of bullets.
-Penetration is far more important than expansion. If you get that 1 good shot, it damn well better reach something important. The FBI recommends 12" minimum and for good reason. Less than that and you're not assured the round will penetrate far enough to damage vital anatomy. Most service caliber police hollowpoints meet that penetration requirement. In smaller handguns like a 380, you may be better off with FMJ. Once you get the minimum penetration, expansion is the icing on the cake.
-Without a hit to the CNS, immediate incapacitation is more mental than physical. Even shot through the heart, a human can continue to fight you for up to 10 seconds. Keep shooting until they stop fighting.Last edited by MarcS; November 8th, 2007 at 08:46 PM.
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November 13th, 2007, 10:59 AM #6
Re: Round Point VS Hollow Point Bullets
yeah Marc hit the nail on the head in fact FBI reports show that at least 50% of hp's don't expand so shot placement is more important.
ZRT: SECTOR 3(SNIPER) Among othe tasks...
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November 13th, 2007, 10:20 PM #7
Re: Round Point VS Hollow Point Bullets
I have my doubts that the temporary cavity has no effect on incapacitation. I know Dr. Fackler says it does not, and he has seen a lot of gun shot wounds. But as a doctor, he sees them after the fact, not during the prescence of the temporary cavity. Having never been shot, the only personnal experience I have is being punched in the stomach. There is some penetration, but no breaking of skin and no substantial tissue damage. Skin, muscle and fat are displaced and then return. Maybe a bruise, but I can remember it taking my breath away. All of these effects were temporary, but enough to end a fight, or really piss the guy off. This might be a physiological trigger to a psychological reaction, i.e. fight or flight. But if this was the case, the presence of the temporary tissue displacement has an effect on the incapacitation of the target.
That being said, I still favor shot placement as the most important factor in incapacitation.
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August 23rd, 2010, 10:33 PM #8Junior Member
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Re: Round Point VS Hollow Point Bullets
FBI reports show that at least 50% of hp's don't expand .....
if that is the case do the non expanding hp bullets tend then to perform like fmj bullets???
from a wounding perspective if a non-expanding bullet is likely to 'penetrate better' it would seem that entry-wound blood vessels would contribute to blood loss, internal damage as the bullet passes through cavity and exit-would vessels contributing to a doubling of blood loss on skin tissues -- dermis, epidermis, etc from entry and exit wound.
does the construction of fmj bullets tend to keep them in one piece better than the hp offerings??? retaing mass and momentum better??
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August 23rd, 2010, 11:05 PM #9Grand Member
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Re: Round Point VS Hollow Point Bullets
check the date on those reports. my guess is they are from 20 years ago. HP technology has come a looooong way in the last 20 years.
but, even if they are talking about quality modern HPs (federal HSTs, speer gold dots, etc.)...
if that is the case do the non expanding hp bullets tend then to perform like fmj bullets???
from a wounding perspective if a non-expanding bullet is likely to 'penetrate better' it would seem that entry-wound blood vessels would contribute to blood loss, internal damage as the bullet passes through cavity and exit-would vessels contributing to a doubling of blood loss on skin tissues -- dermis, epidermis, etc from entry and exit wound.
ideally, you want enough penetration to reach vital organs, but not enough to go all the way through.
does the construction of fmj bullets tend to keep them in one piece better than the hp offerings??? retaing mass and momentum better??F*S=k
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August 24th, 2010, 12:20 AM #10Junior Member
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Re: Round Point VS Hollow Point Bullets
does energy dumping mean anything when trying to disable a human system??
accerlarating blood loss and organ damage seem parmaount rather than energy contained once projectile leaves or stays in the body??
entry and exit wound....means just that many more broken blood vessels along with internal damage. why would energy dumping be of any real concern?
i can understand a concern for potential damage from exiting projectiles but that is proabbly greater from poor marksmaship under duress.
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