Siezed weapons - When do I have to surrendor a firearm?

[Penguini66]

I've read storys here and elswhere of people who had guns "siezed". Like in this thread for example where somebody has their gun siezed after shooting at a dog in self defense.

In general:

United States Constitution>Bill of Rights>Fourth Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

So my question is this: If I am not under arrest, do I have to surrender a firearm? Or better, when do I have to surrender a firearm?

For example: Say I get pulled over for speeding and my range bag and targets are on the back seat so the officer asks me if I am carrying. I say yes. He then asks me to give him the weapon to "check". Can I politely refuse on grounds that he has to have reasonable cause in order to seize my weapon?

Next example: Say I shoot at a dog (or person for that matter) for self defence and do not "hit" anyone or anything. Do I have to surrender my weapon?

Next example: Say I shoot at a dog (or person) for self defence and actually do hit something. Do I have to surrender my weapon or can I tell them to get a warrant first?

Last example: Say while open carrying I run into one of those officers who is uninformed about open carry and feels "threatened" by my sidearm enough to ask me to give it to him. Do I have to hand it over?

In general, if I don't surrender my weapon initially I guess they could go get a warrant and come to my house to sieze it right? That might not be the most fun thing.

I'm obviously very unclear on this and would love to hear some opinions. But, I do understand that there are two different types of "opinions". One type is the opinion of what I should do is to keep the lowest profile and to not "cause" trouble. In other words, comply to stay out of the courts. The other type is what I'm really looking for. The legal opinion of when you do and don't have to surrender a firearm. This may get ugly so lets do our best to keep it civil. Remember, we're not talking about what the "smartest" thing to do is, we're talking about what is within our rights.

The reason I ask all of this is from the horror stories I've heard of people who have had their weapons siezed and have either never seen them again, had to wait months or years to see them again, and when/if they get them back they are a pile of rust. It just seems wrong to me that we seem to let weapons siezures slide while we're trying to stand up for all of our other gun rights.

Opinions, theories and critizizm all welcome.

[Punisher]

if a cop asks for your gun, the smartest move is to give it to him. i'm pretty sure you'd be required to do so. there's nothing that makes me more nervous than a cop with a nervous trigger finger. that's why when i get pulled over i hand them my ccw with my license so they at least know i'm carrying - if they want to hold my weapon until the end of the traffic stop and then give it back unloaded, i don't care just so long as i'm not being ordered around at gun point by a nervous cop. i understand where their coming from - i know a few officers and i also volunteer at a police department and their job can go from fun to dangerous in the blink of an eye.

my opinion is if they confiscate your gun, fight to get it back through legal channels. i guarantee if you give them a hard time about surrendering a weapon you just used, you would would be drawn down on and from there on out treated like a criminal.

just my thoughts...........

[Penguini66]

if a cop asks for your gun, the smartest move is to give it to him. i'm pretty sure you'd be required to do so.

See, that's my exact question. While I would certainly feel complled to comply, I'd like to know if I have to.

[LorDiego01]

I'd say its safe to say, when the dude with the badge on his chest, and the gun on his hip, asks you nicely for your gun, you hand it to him/her, lest he calls more of his buddies with guns on their hips, unless you want their bigger, badder buddies to show up with bigger and badder guns.

Or, you could always yell "Don't taze me, bro!" and get a smack-down in the process.

[Coop650]

I watched a segment on Personal Defense TV where they talked about proper procedure when being faced with this situation. The officer on the show said some officers may ask to secure it until the stop is over and some won't, but they never said if it was required. He also said it's always best to say "I am licensed to carry and I am carrying", and never say the "scary G word that scares young officers".

I will email my friend Brian, he is an LEO in the Bridgeville, PA area and see what he says.

[normanvin]

I'd say its safe to say, when the dude with the badge on his chest, and the gun on his hip, asks you nicely for your gun, you hand it to him/her, lest he calls more of his buddies with guns on their hips, unless you want their bigger, badder buddies to show up with bigger and badder guns.

Or, you could always yell "Don't taze me, bro!" and get a smack-down in the process.

is it also safe to assume that the same cop is familar with any hand gun that is handed to them?

if you hand your gun over to him and he is not up to speed on your model gun and it goes off who is to blame?

[gnbrotz]

I've thought that if for some reason the officer felt that my firearm needed to come out of my holster for his safety, that a reasonable suggestion would be to temporarily secure it in my lockbox with myself retaining the key. This would eliminate any perceived safety issue, without requiring the officer to actually take possession of a firearm he may not be familiar with.

[Weights]

Unfortunately, I believe that the other members here are right. As procedure, I think that a gun is typically taken whenever a shooting occurs, justified or not. I've done some volunteer work in LE before, and believe that was what I was told. It makes me wonder if your gun would be taken should you be in the middle of a shotting, but didn't fire. I know there was a guy here in OH who had his license and gun taken away for about a month, and the officer actually wanted to arrest him for shooting a dog in self-defense, but his chief instructed him to let him go. About a month later, his gun and license were finally returned to him, after the police concluded he did nothing wrong. Crazy shit sometimes, but unfortunately, it seems all too often we are at the mercy of zealous LE. More Americans really need to start standing up for their rights and demanding that our freedom not be continually restricted.

[wewo]

is it also safe to assume that the same cop is familar with any hand gun that is handed to them?

if you hand your gun over to him and he is not up to speed on your model gun and it goes off who is to blame?

Like guns with mag releases that release the striker instead? Presumably they know not to pull the trigger

[RoyJackson]

is it also safe to assume that the same cop is familar with any hand gun that is handed to them?

if you hand your gun over to him and he is not up to speed on your model gun and it goes off who is to blame?

Don't assume they know how to handle, or safely unload your firearm. Several years ago, I was involved in an incident where two local LEO's stopped by my home. I had a cocked and locked 1911 lying close at hand. One of the LEO's struggled with unloading it, so I unloaded it for him and locked the slide back.

The main thing is to not be in the line of fire when someone else is handling an unfamilar firearm.