Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Back to Back OC Events, One With Stroud Township Cop

    Well this happened Sept. 10th but seeing as how I was in the penalty box I am posting it now (and actually writing this on the 20th using the past tense - man this is weird)

    So anyway I had to run to Lowes in Bartonsville to get some paint. I walked in talking to Rich W. on the phone, grabbed the paint I wanted and went to the counter to wait in line, UGH.

    As I waited I kept talking to Rich but I noticed a guy on one of those scooters with 2 girls. Everytime I turned around he was staring at me or the Kimber. After about 10 minutes I got off the phone and he said "Excuse me, couldn't help but notice the gun, is it legal to carry openly like that" ... here we go! I then noticed his weapon on his side, half covered by his t-shirt. Went through the whole thing, yes it's legal, etc etc. He then said "but when I got my 'permit', cut him right off and said "Yup, I know, the police love to tell people that but it is 100% wrong". I then said to him "take out your license and I will give you $10 if you can find the word concealed anywhere on it" (I do this with everyone that says that). He laughed and said "Why do they tell you that then?" Told him it's their opinion and not the law and in fact there are tons of cops that honestly don't know shit about the laws and make it up as they go (this comes into play later, remember it).

    I then went through the whole thing, specifically mentioning the second you enter a vehicle, including a motorcycle you MUST have a license but if you just walk out your door and go for a walk you don't even need a license. I actually mentioned the car thing several times to make sure he 'got it'. Also went through the whole Philly mess, that you must have a license to carry openly or concealed and the fact that even then plan to get hassled if you are open carrying. He laughed and said "my wife is always busting my ass when it pops out from under my shirt." He then began to go through "well this shop said this and the guy at the range said that". I stopped him and said "Everyone thinks they are an expert but in fact you should take the time to actually read and understand the laws because most people haven't clue one. Told him about PAFOA and PaOpenCarry and told him to check them out.

    Told him I had fliers in the car but really didn't want to get out of line to get them and then wait again, after part two of this story you will see why I WISH I had gotten them.

    About this time he mentioned where you can't carry and one of his daughters (late teens, early 20s) said 'post office', looked at her and said 'absolutely, federal building' then mentioned courthouses and the fact you must declare the weapon and have it put into a locker. She then said 'banks' to which I said, nope sorry, that is 100% legal I do it all the time. They all got this twisted look on their face like REALLY? He then said 'bars' to which I also replied "nope that is legal too BUT it sure as heck isn't a smart idea to be drinking and carrying, especially open"

    We talked for a few minutes more but it was my turn in line so he thanked me and off they went. Gave my paint to the guy and the color I wanted and stood there. Another guy that had been there the whole time walked over with a color card and a pillow, trying to see if they matched. He stood next to me and said "I couldn't help but overhear your conversation", I said no problem it wasn't private anyways. He said "well open carry may be legal but if you get into a vehicle ..." Stopped him and said yes, the second you get into a vehicle you must have a license. (obviously he hadn't heard the whole conversation) He then said "well I'm a cop" to which I said "Cool what town?" He said "this one, Stroud". We had some more small talk and then he said "but you know sometimes people get scared by them, it has happened to me while in uniform".

    Right about then the clerk looked over and said "I'm surprised the NY and NJ people aren't freaking out about it all the time". I said "honestly most tourists are very curious and really interested in open carry. I've never had a single bad encounter with a tourist". The cop then (for some reason) pulled out his badge, palming it for me to see. He then said "You know if a business doesn't allow it ... " Again I stopped him and said "yes, private property rights trump other rights and if they have it posted you can be charged with DC, know all about it". I then said to him "a member from a gun board I belong too just had an issue with you guys at Stroud mall a few months back. One of the security guards stopped him and called you guys, your guys got the head of security and I'm pretty sure he said if it's legal then there is no problem" He said he hadn't heard about that incident.

    At this point you could tell he was getting flustered and returned to "Well it does freak some people out, it has happened to me in uniform" I said, in a surprised voice, really? He said he had one time when a father had said his little girls were freaked out by his gun and asked him to cover it (imagine that). Told him I was surprised at that, especially in uniform. He then started to say "well then it can be disorderly conduct".

    I didn't EVEN want to get into that so I just stood there and then he said "You know, that's a really old law". (I just sat there thinking HUH WHAT LAW) As much as I wanted to school him on the fact there is no such law I realized I was going to be beating my head against a wall and my paint was ready so I said "Very nice to meet you, have a nice day" to which he replied the same.

    The cop was nice enough, a decent enough sort of fellow but you could tell he was thinking I didn't know everything I knew. He wasn't rude but he was short and kind of pushy at times. He just kept saying "well you know this" (and proving he hadn't really listened to the entire coversation) and I kept finishing his sentences for him (which I admit was a tad rude but the whole "I'm a cop" and showing me his badge got to me a bit). Don't know why I did it to be honest but I think it's because his initial "I'm a cop" thing just came off as pushy to me. Honestly I hope I run into him again.
    Last edited by dc dalton; October 6th, 2010 at 05:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Back to Back OC Events, One With Stroud Township Cop

    Welcome back from the penalty box....missed my warning yesterday!!! LMAO

    Good story.

    CL

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Back to Back OC Events, One With Stroud Township Cop

    i'm confused? At the end there, are you saying that there is no Law for Disorderly Conduct? If I am reading that correctly, I think you mean brandishing. There is a statute for DC, but it has to be with intent, which is why it doesn't apply to OC (though I have witnessed some situations that I could argue it).

    If I mis-read something in your post, just ignore me.
    Adams County Sport Handgunners Association - President

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Back to Back OC Events, One With Stroud Township Cop

    Quote Originally Posted by djturnz View Post
    i'm confused? At the end there, are you saying that there is no Law for Disorderly Conduct? If I am reading that correctly, I think you mean brandishing. There is a statute for DC, but it has to be with intent, which is why it doesn't apply to OC (though I have witnessed some situations that I could argue it).

    If I mis-read something in your post, just ignore me.
    No you are not reading it right ... that part was about him saying that OC is a 'very old law'

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Back to Back OC Events, One With Stroud Township Cop

    Thank you for the OC report, but,
    Quote Originally Posted by dc dalton View Post
    I then went through the whole thing, specifically mentioning the second you enter a vehicle, including a motorcycle you MUST have a license
    citation, please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Com. v. Walker, 219 Pa.Super. 167, 169, 280 A.2d 590, 591 (1971)
    The offense defined by the Act is carrying a firearm without a license except in one's own place of business or abode. The essence of the offense is the ‘concealed carrying’ of a weapon, whether it is in a vehicle or on the person. [FN.2: ‘This section * * * adopts the modern theory of making the prohibition extend not only to weapons concealed on the person but also weapons carried in vehicles whether concealed or not. It is intended thus to remove the easy method by which a criminal on being pursued may transfer a weapon from his pocket to a concealed place in a vehicle.’ ‘Explanatory Statement Regarding the Uniform Firearms Act’, handbook of the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws: Proceedings of the 40th Annual Conference (1930).] The means by which the gun is transported-car or person-is only detail to describe the method of concealment in which the gun is carried.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Back to Back OC Events, One With Stroud Township Cop

    It sounds like the cop was fishing a bit and trying to trick you into saying something wrong. I think you got out of the conversation at just the right time. The last thing you want is to get into an argument with a cop about disorderly conduct laws.

    And just to clarify, the officer wasn't on duty at the time, correct? I don't mind if an officer gets all "I'm a cop" in your face when he's on duty, but when he's just walking around or shopping like us 'regular folk', pulling out his badge and showing it off is unnecessary.

    And then banks comment made me laugh. At the PennStar Bank next to Lowes I had a conversation with the teller one day where she told me that people couldn't have guns in banks because they were federal buildings. I tried to correct her but she didn't seem to care what I had to say. She was convinced that all bank employees were federal employees, and that made them off limits. They're not the brightest bulbs that work there though, so not knowing the laws the least of their troubles.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Back to Back OC Events, One With Stroud Township Cop

    Well, I think he got what he had coming to him, as far as you being kinda rude/finishing his sentences. He came off that way first with the whole "Well I'm a cop" crap, ego trippin, power trippin, not knowing shit motherf*****,

    ^^^
    Wow, tell us how you really feel.... Just did
    and to the dust you shall return

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Back to Back OC Events, One With Stroud Township Cop

    Quote Originally Posted by dc dalton View Post
    Don't know why I did it to be honest but I think it's because his initial "I'm a cop" thing just came off as pushy to me. Honestly I hope I run into him again.
    Yeah, he sounds like the typical "Richard Cranium" - type cop with an inferiority complex.

    I'd have asked "why are you showing me your badge? Are you on the job? Am I under arrest? What?


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