Why so many bullets?

[Redvole]

I have a feeling that this post will incur a healthy amount of criticism for various reasons, but I am curious why so many people seem to carry an extra magazine, or even a BUG? I think we can all agree on the FBI findings that most gun fights occur at very close range, and they are over in seconds (3-5), with an average of three rounds (per shooter). I have read some slightly different versions of this data, but nothing that shifts the premise that for the most part gun fights are fast, disorganized affairs.

With that in mind, I wonder if the tendency to carry more ammo (or a deeply concealed back-up gun) is related more to an imagined gun fight scenario, than it is to one that may occur. In the imagined version, perhaps there is time to dive behind a car, reload, untuck your shirt and get to that little .38 in the belly-band, take a shot while running for cover, etc. I'll even go as far as to suggest that "indulging" the fantasy version of events might actually make one less prepared to deal with actual events in the way that they are most likely to happen. Thoughts?

[billamj]

There is an old adage where self defense is concerned. "Two is one, one is none" Bottom line is that all firearms are mechanical devices and mechanical devices fail. In regards to ammunition, where would you be if the magazine in your weapon failed? It happens on occasion. If you have no other magazine you are sol, if you have a back up magazine or bug then you have something that you can fall back on.

[urbanamish99]

Following your logic, then, I would say that the very act of carrying a firearm at all, may be due to you 'indulging' a fantasy, since civilians involved in gunfights are so rare. Does this indulging in fantasy perhaps increase your risk, maybe making you comfortable going to places you may not go unarmed?






I'm kidding, of course, but I just don't think your logic works. In the extremely rare instance that your day sucks bad enough that you have to draw your defensive handgun, what makes you think that things will begin to tilt your way as soon as you 'skin that smokewagon' ? Guns are mechanical, things go wrong, why on earth would you not have a spare magazine, and preferably, a spare gun?

[son of the revolution]

Why do LEO's carry Extra Mags and BUG's???? The bottom line is Murphy's Law is always waiting to pounce. Shit happens, firearms break, misfire , jam , etc. Mag feed lips get bent, dont feed, base plates come loose, feed springs go bad, etc. People that carry ultra compacts in their pocket, or especially ladies in their handbags, can get all kinds of crazy stuff in their firearm that has the potential to interfere with proper and consistant operation.

If I have to pull the trigger and get nothing more then a click, I dont want my only remaining option to be using it as a bludgeon or throwing it at the bad guy.

When I carried in Florida it was a total of 42 rounds. 1 15 rnd mag in the gun, 1 in the pipe and 2 spare 15 rnd mags was my minimum and daily load out.

My home defense 12 gauge has 14 on board, alternating between slug and 00 buck.

ALWAYS better to have something and never need it , then need it and not have it !!

As to imagining and mentally going over scenarios in your mind ??? ABSOULTELY you should. Thinking about a possible situation and your options and reactions ahead of time can actually HELP prevent hesitation that might get you hurt or worse.

[Redvole]

Following your logic, then, I would say that the very act of carrying a firearm at all, may be due to you 'indulging' a fantasy, since civilians involved in gunfights are so rare. Does this indulging in fantasy perhaps increase your risk, maybe making you comfortable going to places you may not go unarmed?

I'm kidding, of course, but I just don't think your logic works. In the extremely rare instance that your day sucks bad enough that you have to draw your defensive handgun, what makes you think that things will begin to tilt your way as soon as you 'skin that smokewagon' ? Guns are mechanical, things go wrong, why on earth would you not have a spare magazine, and preferably, a spare gun?

Actually, sometimes I suspect that people do go places armed that they may not otherwise (I don't have any evidence that this is the case, just a suspicion based on human nature). That said, the logic of my argument is cynical, but basically I think that if there is a mechanical failure, chances are that there won't be time to access Plan B. Once one has drawn and fired, or attempted to fire, chances are high that the other shooter has become engaged with you as his new target. In that case, it's optimistic to imagine that there would be time to clear a malfunction, drop the magazine, access the spare, cycle the slide and get back on target.

[ungawa]

I hate to throw out this cliche, but to get the answers to your questions, take some serious handgun training from a reputable company with recognized instructors. An introductory course would require two days to a week.

Once you learn to do things the way the experts do it, and why they do it, in a sincere effort on your part, then you can draw your own conclusions from an informed standpoint. Maybe you will still feel the same way. But you'll have the answers to your questions.

[Redvole]

I hate to throw out this cliche, but to get the answers to your questions, take some serious handgun training from a reputable company with recognized instructors. An introductory course would require two days to a week.

Once you learn to do things the way the experts do it, and why they do it, in a sincere effort on your part, then you can draw your own conclusions from an informed standpoint. Maybe you will still feel the same way. But you'll have the answers to your questions.

That's fair...I admit that I am undertrained, and so my opinions are shaped in the realm of the theoretical. Any recommendations in the Philly area?

[TaePo]

Most gunfights last only 3-5 seconds because one party is much less prepared than another.

My .02 cents.

[phill]

Why so many rounds?

I can not run as fast as I could.

Seriously as said before hope that they are never used but better safe than sorry. Minimum of 25 rounds onboard all of the time.

[son of the revolution]

Actually, sometimes I suspect that people do go places armed that they may not otherwise (I don't have any evidence that this is the case, just a suspicion based on human nature). That said, the logic of my argument is cynical, but basically I think that if there is a mechanical failure, chances are that there won't be time to access Plan B. Once one has drawn and fired, or attempted to fire, chances are high that the other shooter has become engaged with you as his new target. In that case, it's optimistic to imagine that there would be time to clear a malfunction, drop the magazine, access the spare, cycle the slide and get back on target.

Your assuming that once engaged by your foe, any hit will be instantly fatal or incapicitating, and thats simply not the case. The human body has shown time and again to be suprisngly resistant to bullet wounds. That plus adrenalin and you would be amazed how many hits someone can absorb and still stay in the fight.

The only true and instantaneous " lights out " shot is to the base of the brain stem , an incredibly hard target to hit. The fact is in lots of gun fights, NO ONE gets hit, and in the vast majority that DO score hits, they are wounds and they survive.

Some of the Agents in the FBI Shootout in Miami in the mid 80's took multiple wounds from a Mini 14, without body armor and survived the shootout.




Have you considered what to do if your strong side arm/hand is rendered useless due to injury ? falling on it ? breaking a bone , wounded , etc. You may have no choice but to draw a BUG.

Jim Cirrillo is a world famous NYPD Stakeout Detective that survived more then a dozen gun fights in his career. He invented the term " NY Reload " or it was coined because of him. A NY Reload refers to drawing a second ready to go BUG, as it is MUCH faster then trying to reload your primary under stress and fire. Fine motor skills, such as handling a mag or speed loader , or manipulating a slide release or cylinder release are the first things to go out the window during the massive adrenalin dump of a fighting for your life situation.