Penn Dutch Sportsmen

[BaconBocephusBeauregard]

I've only been a member since last spring. I was using hell out of the range from spring to fall and never noticed damage or the property hogged up.

Well let me give you some background on how the club used to be. Ten years ago the club was not much to look at. We had no paving and the road in was pretty rough. We had the basic ranges with well worn covered benches that were not in the greatest condition. Not much to look at BUT we didn't have bullet holes through the trash cans and roofs of shelters. The target rails were not shot to hell and were replaced when they weathered to the point of failure. People policed their own brass/shotshells and things in general were very clean. We didn't have people walking beyond the firing lines and littering the ground. It was a nice basic range. As time went on and membership increased things got worse and the club thought that if they improved the conditions of the club grounds people might have more respect for it. We paved the road and parking areas to give better access. The benches and shelters were all rebuilt with sturdy materials of concrete and steel. Two additional pistol ranges were created to meet the heavier demand of new pistol shooters. Club activities have been organized to create more socialization among shooters.
With all these improvements has come a sharp increase in membership and a sharp increase in vandalism. People are shooting aimlessly at the target holders cutting them in half. There are holes in the shelter roofs and supports. The trash cans are shot from all directions. Rest blocks are destroyed or damaged. The clay thrower has been vandalized as has other club property including the gate and locks. Trash is thrown on the ground and there are a lot of people that do not pick up their brass/shotshells. So when you say you don't see what the problem is, then I guess your used to bad range conditions. The things that are happening cost money/time and are extreme safety concerns. The club is not in an unpopulated area and when somebody gets injured instead of just property damage because of this recklessness, the club's future will be in jeopardy. While the board is struggling to find solutions to solve these problems, they are getting undeserved negative pressure from the membership. Deal with it, the club is not the problem, help in finding solutions not hurting it with miss directed anger. You used to get a friendly wave and hello when you saw a fellow member whether you knew them or not. Not so much the case anymore.

[firemanmark]

Notice to all Members:

A FEW CHANGES AGAIN, the outcome of last night's meeting,

The 2 new rules that were recently made about:
1. Only allowing long guns that are legal to hunt with in PA..
2. Handguns limited to a maximum of 6 rounds..
THESE RULES ARE RESCINDED, and here's the revised compromise.

THE NEW RULE: semi-auto rifles and pistols are limited to a 10 round magizne capacity.
You may fire up to a 3 round burst followed by a 5 second delay
NO RAPID FIRE OR BUMP SHOOTING.


Thanks for your patience; we'll change the range signs / posters in the near future. Merry Christmas.

Be Safe..
Clyde


penndutch@penndutchsportsmen.com Members,
Please forgive me for any confusion regarding the 10 round magazine limit. What I meant to say was that you can use any magazine you wish but it can only be loaded with up to 10 rounds at a time. I hope this helps to clear things up.
Clyde

Well I was thinking of joining there with some family members who just moved to the area but after reading these rules I will NOT be. Sounds alot like the rules imposed by the Clown Posse up in New York State.
I never did understand such rules.....I mean do 30 rounds shot out of a 30rd magazine really magically do that much more damage then 30 rounds shot from 3-10rd mags? As long as the shooter is following the 3 rd/5 second delay rule, why does mag capacity matter? I can understand them wanting to regulate the rate of fire to attempt to eliminate "uncontrolled" rapid shooting leading to damage to the target posts etc and maybe concerns from neighbors regarding rapid fire, but I can't find any justification to the mag capacity rules.

[Mitch10mm]

I saw a hole or two in the shelter roof, trash cans looked new and rarely did I see litter. I pick up more brass then I shot but to me it wasn't or of hand.
I, not me specifically, was told that target shooters, defensive shooters, competitive shooters or whatever you want to call a non hunter was basically unwelcome. My AR was destroying the club, that shooters like me were the problem. Without a chance to voice an opinion semi auto rifles were banned. Look, it's been gone over. Apparently solutions may have been found. Good for those that made it happen. I haven't renewed. Painting certain demographic of the membership is a typical good old boy mindset. It just may be some of those hunters that did whatever damage was done. They may be the ones not picking up or being unsafe. I shoot handgun and AR's. I shot safe and I always left the place better than I found it. I won't be a member where I will always be considered second rate or of a lower class because I don't fit the boards definition of sportsman. Times change, shooting sports are diverse and growing. The good old boys pushed and there was a push back. I doubt it will last and the ban will be back or something near as restrictive. It's a shame.
It became them vs us. Read the email announcements. The board made the distinction of who was welcome and who might be happier someplace else. Had they wanted to improve the club for everyone I'd be onboard.

[The Unknown 1087]

I still have to send my renewal in this week. Still debating.

[mciaio]

LOL! Who is the president of that Club? Feinstein? I would never join a club with such rules. You can use the state ranges for $30 a year if you want lame rules.

[CountryStyle]

..... the club is not the problem, help in finding solutions not hurting it with miss directed anger. You used to get a friendly wave and hello when you saw a fellow member whether you knew them or not. Not so much the case anymore.

I agree with the last part of the above quote greatly.

Those of you who know me, have met me, or have joined my effort, know what I have done and continue to do, to find a solution. I jumped in when they did, what I felt was, banning members based only on firearm they use and not the brain in their head.

Many of the "Ban" rules have been edited or removed, and we are moving toward having a more flexible range layout that will include a more tactical style range. There are improvements that must be made before it can be everything that some of us want it to be.

I understand why some people may not want to join based on the current rules, but please understand that I could use your support in moving forward with this. The time I have spent studying range design, ballistics, aerial photographs and local laws cannot even be calculated.

Unfortunately, I now have a newborn son in the NICU and my time to dedicate has been cut down to almost nothing. I would hate to lose what we have gained in as far as making this a better club for all style shooters.

The club is a beautiful setup, great location for me, and I love going there to practice and have a good time. I will continue doing what I can to improve it. If others want a turnkey operation, best of luck to you. I will stay and see what I can do here.

[Mitch10mm]

Your efforts are greatly appreciated. I let my emotion get the best of me in this thread whenever I read how it's the members, it's the members. It was handled poorly, period. It can be a great range for all or it can stay in the past for a select group. Good luck to all of you guys, sincerely. And thanks again for what you are doing

[CountryStyle]

Your efforts are greatly appreciated. I let my emotion get the best of me in this thread whenever I read how it's the members, it's the members. It was handled poorly, period. It can be a great range for all or it can stay in the past for a select group. Good luck to all of you guys, sincerely. And thanks again for what you are doing

Thanks Mitch, I think we are on the same page here with our feelings.

(sidenote): Not looking for a pat on the back, just looking for support while things are still fluid here. Go back in this thread and find the email address if you want to help.

Thanks.

[The Unknown 1087]

I got my renewal card back.

Hopefully they allow people to actually get closer to the targets for pistols. As you can practice self defense draw and shoot since most of those incidents happen at 10ft or less.

If nothing changes maybe i'll save up and goto new Holland. I believe my friends dad has a membership there I could go check it out.

[fireball]

From what I understand, you are allowed to cross the firing line and get as close to the targets as you want on the handgun ranges but not on the rifle ranges. On the rifle ranges you are required to stay behind the firing line (Front of the shooting benches)