Shooting for self defense?

[freedomfighter]

Ok i got into an argument with my roomate and our other friend after watching True Tv.

The situation was a jewlery store, and two guys come into the store pretending to sell a watch, once they give the clerck the watch they mase him and smash the the glass case and start stealing the jewls.

once the clerk realizes what happend, he reaches for a gun, and electronically locks the door to the store so the theives cannot leave, and he starts shooting at them. Once the shooting starts they try to flee but cannot as they were now trapped.. after a few shots the crooks are hit and on the ground in the corner, one clearly with his hands in the air and the clerk continues shooting and hits him in the leg.

once its over about 7-10 shots were fired total.

now im saying that the clerck went too far when he locked them in the store and continued shooting after they clearly tried to retreat.

basically i said he wasnt in the right to do what he did.

My roomate says he was in every right. I said you cannot detain someone by locking them in a room and continue to shoot at them after they submit and try to flee.

Then i tried to tell them that if someone breaks into my home and i annouonce i am home and im armed and they continue to come at me then i have the right to shoot in defense... but I told them that Even if they stole something and are now turned around and running out of the house with their back to me I now have no right to shoot them as they are fleeing, and they both disagreed with me on that...

I bet them 1000 dollars each that i was correct. but they wouldnt take it...

Now what do you guys think? and where can i find a reference to prove me right or wrong in these situations.

[donm]

Trap them inside and then shoot them? Though some jurisdictions allow use of deadly force to protect property, most DAs would have a field day with that one. And after the civil suits, the bad guys just might be in the jewelry business themselves.

[ksig1869]

I agree. Jail time would be in your immediate future. I don't have the literature to back it up, but once a would-be-aggressor is no longer a threat and you use lethal force you no longer acted in self-defense. That is not considered self-defense but then it really depends on the DA and what they decide to do.

There was a case some time last year about Pharmacist who shot at would be robbers. Shot one, other escaped, returned to the store retrieved another handgun and shot the injured perp again. He is facing significant jail time. Let me see if I can find that. If you find it you can show that to your friends.

Too bad your friends didn't take you up on that bet. Hope this helps.

[Philbert]

I agree. Jail time would be in your immediate future. I don't have the literature to back it up, but once a would-be-aggressor is no longer a threat and you use lethal force you no longer acted in self-defense. That is not considered self-defense but then it really depends on the DA and what they decide to do.

There was a case some time last year about Pharmacist who shot at would be robbers. Shot one, other escaped, returned to the store retrieved another handgun and shot the injured perp again. He is facing significant jail time. Let me see if I can find that. If you find it you can show that to your friends.

Too bad your friends didn't take you up on that bet. Hope this helps.

I've been following this case periodically. The trial keeps getting pushed back, and now the DA has replaced the judge!

http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-...headline_crime

[Kratos]

I think this is the video the OP is referring to. If not correct me.

I found this kind of disturbing. Did these punks get what they deserve? I don't know. What I'm certain of, is in PA, it certainly is illegal.

[Philbert]

I think this is the video the OP is referring to. If not correct me.

I found this kind of disturbing. Did these punks get what they deserve? I don't know. What I'm certain of, is in PA, it certainly is illegal.

Nice find. I think locking the door was a bad idea. Other than that, I'd say it's pretty hard to see whether someone is truly surrendering if they've just maced you.

[Kratos]

This video has already been discussed here. http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/466...lry-store.html

Store owner turns tables on robbers...shoots both of them

CLOSE [X] CCTV:January 05/09.(Also watch news report attached)Newly released surveillance video showed what happened during an attempted robbery inside a Phoenix jewelry store earlier this month.

Phoenix police said two men tried to rob D Jewelers near 32nd Street and Bell Road on January 5.

Police said Gregory Mills, 24, and Jason Buckingham, 27, initially went into the store and tried to sell a watc More..h. The store owner told the men he could not purchase the watch and the men left.

About 10 minutes later, the two men came back and sprayed the owner in the face with mace. One of the men then used a metal baton and smashed the glass to a jewelry display cabinet.

The 61-year-old store owner told police he feared for his life so he took out a handgun from his pocket and fired several shots at the men, hitting them each one time.

After the shooting, the video showed the owner hitting one of the suspects on the head several times causing his gun to discharge.

The video also showed the owner holding both men at gunpoint until police arrived.

Police investigators said the victim acted in self-defense and was not charged.

However, the case will be reviewed by the Maricopa County Attorney's Office for a final determination regarding charges.

You think this guy would get charged in Philly?

[freedomfighter]

that does look like the video but they had a different angle on The tv but it may be it... My thing was he LOCKED them in and keep shooting as they clearly were no longer threating him, just pointing the gun at them ended the robbery no need to go any futher...

Note to self, im glad im the gun owner in this house and not my roomate..

[freedomfighter]

I can understand firing in self defense but not shooting at someone running away from you and then locking the door, and continually shooting at them as they are trying to hide behind a table... hell no, i see a huge civil suite, if that was my store i would never instruct a clerk to do such a thing, thats what insurance is for... let them leave then lock the door so they cant come back in...

[FLICK]

I loved the little dance the one robber does about 21 or 22 seconds in. I say F-em'. Don't rob people and you won't get shot. But in Philly, enjoy your jail time with Bubba....

I'm not sure how much mace or pepper spray or whatever got into the store owners eyes, but I'm guessing he couldn't see shit. Also, thank god I wasn't walking by the store front that day, maybe I would have been doing a little dancing myself....