Gun Rights Convention in San Fran.????

**ErSwnn** · September 2nd, 2010, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Suburban

I don't really buy it.

I don't think the people in SF will get it. The lefty whacko types that'll be out there protesting it don't respond to logic. Surely you've experienced some of it before. You can talk about the gun rights roots of the 2nd Amendment in the Federalist Papers, and how gun crime skyrocketed in the U.K. after the gun bans, and they come back at you with, "Yeah, but dummy, there were no assault weapons when they wrote the Bill of Rights, and if we banned all the guns and put an end to the gun culture, there'd be so much less violence and accidents. It's so obvious!"

Now I know they're not all lefty whackos in CA, there're people working for Guns and American Handgunner out there and there's ErSwnn's brother, but SF is the nation's capital of leftist lunacy.

Maybe I don't understand the point of the conference. Is it to try to convert people to our side, or is it to gather gun rights activists for a sort of pep rally, and discuss the (figurative) modes of attack for the upcoming election and 2011. I'm pretty sure it's the latter, but I could be wrong.

You may well be right, I don't know. There are pros and cons to each side of this idea. And you are correct, it's a meeting to build stratagies and formulate actions. In the end it's up to the people who are actually spending the money so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the outcome is.

**Yellowfin** · September 2nd, 2010, 11:05 AM

SF is exactly the place to have it because it is in need of the most help. I lived out in CA for about a year and a half and the pro gun people there are fighting as hard as they can to overcome the political and social climate there and are doing a pretty good job, but it's a long and slow fight. The need to topple the anti gun strongholds in CA is imperative. Believe it or not the majority is NOT 100% anti gun, but the antis have been well organized for decades and use a combination of unions, gerrymandering, bullying, and political maneuvering to make sure the vote always comes out just over the 51% mark. But now SAF, Calguns, and CRPA are pushing back and have made some big accomplishments and keep finding more ways to win in specific niches to build up to the big stuff.

Besides the lack of RKBA in the California constitution, why do you think the antis have entrenched themselves there? Simple, because there's the most people there! It's a high priority target so they focus their efforts there. Their goal is cultural extinction of gun ownership, so the most people they can tie up with the fewest elected seats to need to capture the better. So when you have large numbers of people who are used to living under bad laws the status quo is that much more oppressive. Thus you see our problem isn't the large numbers of people who are against gun ownership, carry rights, etc. by themselves, but the large number who are unused to the idea. Thus have at very least no informed opinion, probably a little or a lot of fear, and given that they haven't had the opportunity and experience with RKBA freedom, it's a low priority for them so they can easily be swayed by the much louder presence of the anti gun people and/or vote for someone who incidentally happens to be anti gun because that's who gets on the ballot there. California has gerrymandering down to a science which produces around 98% incumbent reelection, so the people don't really get much of a voice in what really happens because the outcome is predetermined. This HEAVILY favors anti gun politicians because that ideology thrives in establishment politics.

Thus California gun owners need the most help, have the most to fight for, and see the need more than anyone to act. This should be a very, VERY vivid lesson to people in Pennsylvania, too: FIGHT HARD NOW because the CeaseFire pukes, Rendell, Nutter, et al. would like nothing better than to turn here into California. And FIGHT FOR KEEPS because they need to be PERMANENTLY BEAT or they'll just stay in the fight and catch you when you're down or asleep. The longer you keep them around rather than squashing them at elections, kicking their type off of school boards and university boards of trustees and police departments, suing them into poverty, etc. the more they'll try whatever they can and they won't stop until they get it. They DO NOT want to merely disagree with us, they want us GONE, as in NO MORE gun ownership EVER--you're severely in denial if you think otherwise. Yet so many on our side refuse to take this seriously and think it's a simple disagreement about one or two types of things and they're really harmless.

**Rundownfid** · September 3rd, 2010, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Yellowfin

SF is exactly the place to have it because it is in need of the most help. I lived out in CA for about a year and a half and the pro gun people there are fighting as hard as they can to overcome the political and social climate there and are doing a pretty good job, but it's a long and slow fight. The need to topple the anti gun strongholds in CA is imperative. Believe it or not the majority is NOT 100% anti gun, but the antis have been well organized for decades and use a combination of unions, gerrymandering, bullying, and political maneuvering to make sure the vote always comes out just over the 51% mark. But now SAF, Calguns, and CRPA are pushing back and have made some big accomplishments and keep finding more ways to win in specific niches to build up to the big stuff.

Besides the lack of RKBA in the California constitution, why do you think the antis have entrenched themselves there? Simple, because there's the most people there! It's a high priority target so they focus their efforts there. Their goal is cultural extinction of gun ownership, so the most people they can tie up with the fewest elected seats to need to capture the better. So when you have large numbers of people who are used to living under bad laws the status quo is that much more oppressive. Thus you see our problem isn't the large numbers of people who are against gun ownership, carry rights, etc. by themselves, but the large number who are unused to the idea. Thus have at very least no informed opinion, probably a little or a lot of fear, and given that they haven't had the opportunity and experience with RKBA freedom, it's a low priority for them so they can easily be swayed by the much louder presence of the anti gun people and/or vote for someone who incidentally happens to be anti gun because that's who gets on the ballot there. California has gerrymandering down to a science which produces around 98% incumbent reelection, so the people don't really get much of a voice in what really happens because the outcome is predetermined. This HEAVILY favors anti gun politicians because that ideology thrives in establishment politics.

Thus California gun owners need the most help, have the most to fight for, and see the need more than anyone to act. This should be a very, VERY vivid lesson to people in Pennsylvania, too: FIGHT HARD NOW because the CeaseFire pukes, Rendell, Nutter, et al. would like nothing better than to turn here into California. And FIGHT FOR KEEPS because they need to be PERMANENTLY BEAT or they'll just stay in the fight and catch you when you're down or asleep. The longer you keep them around rather than squashing them at elections, kicking their type off of school boards and university boards of trustees and police departments, suing them into poverty, etc. the more they'll try whatever they can and they won't stop until they get it. They DO NOT want to merely disagree with us, they want us GONE, as in NO MORE gun ownership EVER--you're severely in denial if you think otherwise. Yet so many on our side refuse to take this seriously and think it's a simple disagreement about one or two types of things and they're really harmless.

All well and good in theory, but just how does having a convention in Calf. take the fight to them? It will give money to the bankrupt gov't through a slew of taxes, hotels, food, alcohol, but that isn't exactly a knock out blow. There might be some protests,one can hope it will be noticed, but who would cover that, the local anti-gun news? Better to schedule it then cancel the convention and move it to Ariz. to help them in their plight.

**Yellowfin** · September 3rd, 2010, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Rundownfid

All well and good in theory, but just how does having a convention in Calf. take the fight to them?

On a very simple level: it shows the gun owners and advocates in CA that our side is present there and undeterred, rather than the usual day to day feeling they get that they're surrounded by nothing but the other side. It's a psychological victory, both positive on our side and negative on the opposition as the LCAV HQ is in SF as well. Also if you've noticed a key part of the leadership for the pro gun offense is in that area: Gene Hoffman, Don Kilmer, and Chuck Michel.