Luzerne County LOE's,get this done!!!!

[NikeBauer21]

Gentlemen, I will preface my response by stating this. I too was born and raised here and I am also proud of it. I did by no means mean my previous statement as a slur against anyone. So don't go getting your panties in a bunch.

As I said, my last statement wasn't directed at you, but there are many who fit that description.

First and foremost, I have found that the "mentality" influences common basic courtesy. People from the "region" have a tendancy to be very "clanish" and doing so tend to be rude and unfriendly in social situations. Go into a restaurant or a bar in another town or area and you would think that you are wearing a scarlet letter by the treatment you receive.

True. Even if you're from the same area, but don't frequent a place, many of them still stare you down, and don't show any courtesy. Simply put, they are ignorant, sheltered people. While many are like this, many are not. I think it's changed quite a bit over the years as well... hopefully anyway.

Failure to accept change and progress and to see reality as it is. For example, ask someone what their political affiliation is and about 90% of the people will respond...Democrat.
Why? Because my _________ was a Democrat and my so and so was a Democrat and those Republicans are rich and they don't care about the workin man. But for the last 60 or so years those same Fed/State/local politicians have been running this state and communities into the ground at our expense.

No disagreement there. However, that can be said for much of the US. Many people vote blindly, so to speak. The thing that gets me about our area though, is that people always vote Democrat for whatever reason, but then they bitch from the time the election is over, until next election. ALL THE TIME. I really don't get it.

As far as accepting change and progress, I think it depends what it is. I like to take a more traditional approach to things. I like things simple... I like things to stay that way, without the constant advance of technology in SOME areas of life. Obviously, we can't live with our heads in the sand, but at the same time, why move "forward" if common sense tells you it will end up being a setback? I think this is another problem in the region. The politicians do not represent the people's wants, and choose to go their own way, changing things whether it's good or bad.

Right now, they want to put windmills all along the mountain behind my house. I'm all for alternate sources of energy... but put the freakin things out on a windfarm somewhere away from here. Don't ruin our valley because of it. And we won't even see any benefit from it. The energy will be shipped out to Philly and NJ. But yet, we must deal with the sight, and sound, and possible frequency interruptions. THIS is one of the "changes" they try to force on us, and tell us is "great"... I guess when people get paid off, the change is great for them...

Getting a higher education beyond high school makes you a "big shot".

This is something which I believe is changing as well. It's actually more rare to find someone not going onto a higher education these days. Years ago, sure, if you went, you were the "show off", "big shot".. I think common sense, and changing times and requirements has forced a different perspective on this.

Allowing the local elite (Chamber of Commerce)to continually turn away companies that want to relocate to the industrial parks because the business wants to pay a decent wage and possibly be unionized. Can't allow a business come in that has skilled labor because then no one would work in the distribution/warehouse jobs for minimum wage.

I'll agree on this as well... as long as they stay in the parks, and don't ruin my hunting land or anything. But this is another case of the people wanting jobs, but when some want to move in, people bitch. Many are way to contradictory in their thinking. And if they don't have something to bitch about, they aren't happy.

While at a PGC range trying to help a buddy with an AR15 function problem have someone come over uninvited and ask, "Why did you waste your money on that?" " Can't hunt with it." (See above about the proper behavior bit)

This is something else I think happens all over. No matter where I go with my AR, people ask me that. I just give them a one-line answer and go about my business.

Why do people continue to dump garbage/construction debris/tires etc along the roadsides and rural areas?

Because they are ignorant jerks. What I don't get is, they go through the trouble of hauling it all the way to the ravine, why not just haul it to the dump right away?? Sometimes, people work harder trying to get out of work, than if they would have just done it right the first time. I sincerely hope they can start catching more of these idiots, and prosecuting them. Wooden things, and biodegradable things are one problem... but when you see fridges, mattresses, washing machines, sinks, etc down there... those things will never go away...

I don't think I have to go into corruption and graft that exists. I'll save that for another day.

Again, I think this is something that goes on just about everywhere. Granted, it is pretty bad in just about everything from sports, to schoolboards, to townships, to local and higher govts. around here, but I think you have that in many places.

Now there are positives living here. Depending where you live, there is little violent crime. Traffic is relatively light unless there is PennDot construction going on.

Even that is getting worse though... Generally speaking, it's still true. But in our valley, when I was younger, if you went to the store you could leave your doors unlocked and your windows open, and go into the store. In the store, it was a very rare occurrance that you saw someone you DIDN'T know. When you came out, everything was exactly how you left it, and maybe even someone dropped that book they borrowed into your driver's seat. Now, it's rare that you know someone at the store. This is part of the "change" I don't like. Scumbags moving in, bringing crime, drugs, etc. Heck, I look at the police blotter for our valley, and 95% of the time I have never heard of the person, and when I look at the location, it's from some other place. They come in and spread negative things, and then wonder why the people around here are so unreceptive to others moving in.

I grew up here, went away to college, graduated and came back. Couldn't get a job so I had to move south to MD and was there for a few years. Came back to PA after a family issue and have lived here ever since. Once out of the negativity and the "That's just the way it is." attitude, a person can see life and the world from a different perspective.

I was in the same boat. I went from that rural country town, to the city. And I will say, there is good and bad things in each. The good things about the town - less crime, better scenery and land, more people you know, away from the hustle and bustle. And some good things about the city - close to just about everything, constantly something going on so there's never a boring moment...

That being said, I enjoy being back in the rural area for the most part. I hate the city life... the people are even more ignorant than here, the traffic, the wall-to-wall buildings and crowded areas, the crime, etc...

But I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too...

Sorry about being long winded, but fellas I mean no offense to anyone here. These are just my observations.

Us "more educated" people in the area, feel your concerns. Not everyone fits the general description in present day.

[normanvin]

Yep, and anyone who does not buy a Hunting License, who bitches, needs to get a boot in their ass.....

I buy a hunting license, that pays for those ranges, they are not for the tacticool fools, they are for the Hunters, who pay for them......

I'll be the first to raise hell with anyone who has a different view, at a SGL Range......

By your argument. I pay taxes which pays for up keep of the roads. I have a Pa dl.

Anyone from another state should get the hell off of my roads.

Maybe the state game lands should be sold off. Then the people who build on them will be paying taxes on the property.

[normanvin]

Originally Posted by NoQtr View Post
After reading this thread, I came away thinking several things.

First, the "coal region" mentality is alive and well and shows no signs changing any time soon. Very sad.

Second, some gun owners are not willing to educate themselves and are so narrow minded that they give anti-gun groups and politicos fodder to push the anti-gun agenda.

Third, while opinions are free speech, sometimes it is best to keep them to one's self.

The PGC ranges are not meant for or are conducive to "training". They are meant for a shooter to stay in a static position with a weapon and remain that way until they fire all the rounds.http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...=620410&mode=2

Gentlemen, I will preface my response by stating this. I too was born and raised here and I am also proud of it. I did by no means mean my previous statement as a slur against anyone. So don't go getting your panties in a bunch.

The "coal region" mentality is difficult to describe because it is made up of several things and can sometimes be seen as generalities but they are my observations and experiences during my 48 trips around the sun.

First and foremost, I have found that the "mentality" influences common basic courtesy. People from the "region" have a tendancy to be very "clanish" and doing so tend to be rude and unfriendly in social situations. Go into a restaurant or a bar in another town or area and you would think that you are wearing a scarlet letter by the treatment you receive.

Failure to accept change and progress and to see reality as it is. For example, ask someone what their political affiliation is and about 90% of the people will respond...Democrat.
Why? Because my _________ was a Democrat and my so and so was a Democrat and those Republicans are rich and they don't care about the workin man. But for the last 60 or so years those same Fed/State/local politicians have been running this state and communities into the ground at our expense.

Getting a higher education beyond high school makes you a "big shot".

Allowing the local elite (Chamber of Commerce)to continually turn away companies that want to relocate to the industrial parks because the business wants to pay a decent wage and possibly be unionized. Can't allow a business come in that has skilled labor because then no one would work in the distribution/warehouse jobs for minimum wage.

While at a PGC range trying to help a buddy with an AR15 function problem have someone come over uninvited and ask, "Why did you waste your money on that?" " Can't hunt with it." (See above about the proper behavior bit)


Why do people continue to dump garbage/construction debris/tires etc along the roadsides and rural areas?

I don't think I have to go into corruption and graft that exists. I'll save that for another day.

Now there are positives living here. Depending where you live, there is little violent crime. Traffic is relatively light unless there is PennDot construction going on.

I grew up here, went away to college, graduated and came back. Couldn't get a job so I had to move south to MD and was there for a few years. Came back to PA after a family issue and have lived here ever since. Once out of the negativity and the "That's just the way it is." attitude, a person can see life and the world from a different perspective.

It is just a shame that with the strong work ethic, strong sense of family and community the mindset is just ingrained.

Sorry about being long winded, but fellas I mean no offense to anyone here. These are just my observations.

Gerneralizations are great. They are used to describe things that you do not know a lot about.

People of the coal region mentality. Do you know every person of the coal region? Doubt it.



Man that guy must have a really good job. Look at the new car he drives. Maybe the guy worked hard for that car. Maybe he will be paying on it for the next 6 years. You just don't know.

Then in your second post you ask "Why do people continue to dump garbage/construction debris/tires etc along the roadsides and rural areas? Ok why do they dump garbage in the middle of the street in the bigger cities?

Then you mention corruption. Because there are some crooked politicians. That must mean they all are.

Hell growing up In the Pittston area there was a lot of mafia connections. they just happen to be Italians. That must mean all Italians must be in the mafia.

Oh and then we must all be gun nuts because one guy goes out and shoots someone.


To quote you "Third, while opinions are free speech, sometimes it is best to keep them to one's self."

[NoQtr]

Norm,

by Normanvin

Gerneralizations are great. They are used to describe things that you do not know a lot about.

People of the coal region mentality. Do you know every person of the coal region? Doubt it.

Like I said above, they are personal observations and experiences that I have encountered first hand. Please indicate where I made an unsubstantiated generalization. I don't make snap judgements or opinions or attach emotions to something without doing a bit of research on a particular thing.

I realize that everything that happens here in the coal region happens every where else. So what is your point. Like I said before, I did not mean to offend anyone. Relax man.

[fingers80002]

By your argument. I pay taxes which pays for up keep of the roads. I have a Pa dl.

Anyone from another state should get the hell off of my roads.

Maybe the state game lands should be sold off. Then the people who build on them will be paying taxes on the property.

Hell yeah, those idiots can't figure out the rules of the road........

[normanvin]

Norm,



Like I said above, they are personal observations and experiences that I have encountered first hand. Please indicate where I made an unsubstantiated generalization. I don't make snap judgements or opinions or attach emotions to something without doing a bit of research on a particular thing.

I realize that everything that happens here in the coal region happens every where else. So what is your point. Like I said before, I did not mean to offend anyone. Relax man.

You are basing everything you know on the subject on personal observations and your experiences. Am I getting that right? To me that boils down to opinion.

How did you do research on the subject?

[NoQtr]

O.k. Here is how you are going to solve this. After flexing your internet muscles for your buddies, your assignment is to look up the definition of:
personal
observation
experience

Then go back and r-e-a-d the thread s-l-o-w-l-y. There seems to be a reading comprehension problem.

[normanvin]

Internet muscles for your buddies? Take your own advise.

Originally Posted by NoQtr View Post

Third, while opinions are free speech, sometimes it is best to keep them to one's self.

[NoQtr]

You keep wanting to turn this rather trivial thread into an Abbott/Costello spin off of "Who's on first". I don't know if you just like to see yourself in print or you are starving for attention.

By Normanvin: Being a person that was born, raised and still lives in the coal region. I would love to know what you mean by "the "coal region" mentality " is.

By Normanvin: I reserve my comments until or if NoQtr responds.

Again, go back and r-e-a-d my responses. I believe that I explained myself and backed up my reasoning and stated that I did not intend to offend anyone.

By Normanvin: Internet muscles for your buddies? Take your own advise.

My responses to this thread were not intended as "advice" to anyone. You were waiting for me to respond and I believe I did in a clear, concise manner.
I am sorry that you don't agree or were offended by my responses.

Quote by NoQtr:
First and foremost, I have found that the "mentality" influences common basic courtesy. People from the "region" have a tendancy to be very "clanish" and doing so tend to be rude and unfriendly in social situations. Go into a restaurant or a bar in another town or area and you would think that you are wearing a scarlet letter by the treatment you receive.

By NikeBauer21: True. Even if you're from the same area, but don't frequent a place, many of them still stare you down, and don't show any courtesy. Simply put, they are ignorant, sheltered people. While many are like this, many are not. I think it's changed quite a bit over the years as well... hopefully anyway.

Sir, you are just proving my point.

By Normanvin:
Originally Posted by NoQtr View Post
Third, while opinions are free speech, sometimes it is best to keep them to one's self.

Until I do something that would warrant me from being banned from this site, I will continue to post here just as you do.

As per Danp PAFOA founder and owner:

General Rules

Treat each other with the same respect you would if you were talking to each other face to face. If there's a good chance the person you're talking to would punch you in the face for saying what you're about to type, it may be a sign that you want to reword your post. Unfortunately the relative anonymity of the Internet allows people the world over to say things they would never say in real life without fear of any repercussions.

Try to keep debates friendly. While it's fairly well understood that 10 gun owners will give you 20 opinions on the same subject, the key to disagreement is to keep it friendly and sometimes realizing that the best option is to agree to disagree. Don't let a debate turn into a personal fight, that is childish.

Also keep in mind that your words reflect on the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association and all firearm owners in general. Fair or not, if you come on here and act like a jerk people are going to associate your bad attitude with the organization and firearm owners as a whole. Please don't make the rest of us look like uneducated, small-minded idiots just because you choose to be.

[45doubleta]

.........Response to wrong thread..disregard