One in the Chamber

[LittleRedToyota]

And if my gun is not loaded and pointed to the BG at that point, then I'm an idiot.

that is completely unrealistic. as i said before...and you seem to agree...people get within arms reach of you all the time. and you do not have your gun drawn and pointed at them.

one of them could pull a knife or other weapon and attack you with it before you can get your gun out and pointed at him. you will have to start off with HTH tactics to deflect/control the attack...and it is quite conceivable that you will get to a point where you have enough space to draw and fire with one hand, but not to use both to do that.

if you lived closer, we could set up such a scenario in FoF and try stuff out.

btw, it is not an unrealistic scenario at all. here is one that is at least close to a real scenario i remember reading about years ago.

a guy was putting something he had just purchased in his trunk. another guy pretended to be walking between his car and the one next to him like he was going to get in that car. BG stopped and launched an attack on GG with something like an ASP. GG uses his weak arm to deflect blows from ASP (possibly breaking his arm, but preventing him from being knocked the f' out by blows to the head). while using his support arm to prevent his skull from being cracked open, he draws his pistol and shoots the guy with his strong hand...ending the fight.

the other option would have been just going HTH with a guy who had an ASP in hand and was already hitting him with it. bad option, imho.

That's why I say "tactics". I want to learn about all the engagements, where such thing occured and figure out how to avoid them.

of course, but avoidance may fail. otherwise, you would not need to carry a gun at all.

[Robert Kayland]

Those things you listed are excuses...things that simple common sense and training (or money, for the 'modern' firearm) could rectify. They are not good reasons to carry the way you endorse.

The only good reason is, again, the odds... never bet on the other guy's (or life's, in general) common sense... even if the guy is highly trained.

/now, where is that DEA youtube video?

[Metz]

So instead of careful gun handling and safety training...

PA doesn't have mandatory training. So this argument doesn't stand, unless you can force everybody to take classes and always exercise safety rules.

you think it's acceptable to endanger your own life by not being prepared to engage a threat when the threat displays itself?

Again, I am prepared. All the time. And unlike many dont' think that having one in the pipe and disregarding the tactics and common sense makes me more prepared, that exercising general safety and being aware of the surroundings.

[Robert Kayland]

Yup. That' why I carry in bellt holster, so my gun is pointed towards the ground, and not in the shoulder holster, when it's pointed to the person behind you.

Geez, that' ANOTHER excellent point I never thought about! Rep to ya!

[Certified Agent]

Metz,

You've got a pretty strong stance on the empty chamber. To get a little away from the hypothetical "what if's" and to help me to see your position better:

What are the benefits of carrying the gun that way?
Closely related, what disadvantages do you see to carrying with one in the chamber?

The ADVANTAGES of carrying one in the chamber is that your ready to stop the threat.
The DISADVANTAGES of carrying one in the chamber is.......... well......... there isnt any

[LittleRedToyota]

And we know that everybody carry modern uber-safe handguns.

it doesn't matter what everyone else carries. it only matters what you carry.

the decision you make will not change what or how others carry. you are making the decision only for yourself.

i suggest you choose to carry a modern handgun...one in which ADs are essentially unheard of.

... because re-actor LET that happen due to poor tactical skills.

no. that is not realistic. people get that close to you all the time. and you do not have ESP...you cannot know whether or not they are a bad guy. any one of those people could attack you.

Not to mention, if we are talking about arm's reach, then what are the odds, that actor won't be the first, who get the control over your loaded gun? While otherwise, he'll keep pulling the trigger with priceless puzzled WTF expression on his face, while my leg will kick the bejeezus out of his cojones.[/QUOTE]

[LittleRedToyota]

/now, where is that DEA youtube video?

exactly.

that guy was a complete idiot.

unless you are a complete idiot, too, why would you make your choices based on the actions of a complete idiot?

[Robert Kayland]

The ADVANTAGES of carrying one in the chamber is that your ready to stop the threat.
The DISADVANTAGES of carrying one in the chamber is.......... well......... there isnt any

This "no advantages" mantra is certainly getting old, not the least of which because it's hogwash.

Even for those to whom the advantages of +1 outweigh the alternative, you should at least have the intellectual integrity to admit the safety factor, considering the everyday scenarios encountered by the vast majority of gun-toting citizens.

[H.E. Pennypacker]

PA doesn't have mandatory training. So this argument doesn't stand, unless you can force everybody to take classes and always exercise safety rules.

Again, I am prepared. All the time. And unlike many dont' think that having one in the pipe and disregarding the tactics and common sense makes me more prepared, that exercising general safety and being aware of the surroundings.

You are one of the fellows at Wicen's right? I believe we met about a month or two ago. And that makes me think you do have training and you are careful and you are proficient with your handgun. Your excuse is other people don't have the training, or the common sense, or the properly modern firearm, but you do. Which makes me wonder why you still choose to not carry +1. I've heard all the reasons so far, and if you feel comfortable that way, then that's fine...but I think it's to everyone's advantage who feels comfortable in doing so to carry +1.

[Robert Kayland]

exactly.

that guy was a complete idiot.

unless you are a complete idiot, too, why would you make your choices based on the actions of a complete idiot?

He is just one of a large army of complete idiots out there... an army in which, at times, I myself am a soldier... or maybe conscript would be the better word.