Better sights? More practice?

[PennsyPlinker]

Something else? I spent this morning at the range with my father. As a side note, he has appropriated my CZ 75 P-01 and told me I need to find something else. I'm already looking for another CZ. But that isn't the purpose of this post.

So I'm at the range. I recently had my local smith install a full beavertail on my Colt Lightweight Commander, and today was the chance to prove its function before sticking it back in my holster. I started out with the Marvel .22 conversion kit, and shot 90 rounds of CCI mini mags into a ragged hole on the target. So far so good. Then, I replaced the slide and barrel and started in with .45 ACP FMJ ammo. I was all over the place. It was depressing. I managed to stay on COM, but the group could best be described as a shotgun blast type of pattern. In frustration I grabbed the SIG P220 out of my holster and ran though the mag in it at a fairly rapid pace. It was like I was shooting the .22 again.

The Marvel conversion kit has excellent sights. The SIG also has some very good sights too, tritium no less (although that did not factor into equation with bright sunlight). The sights on the Colt are so so in my opinion, and I have to wonder if they might be part of my problem. I do not claim to be a deadeye shot, but I usually do better than I was doing today with that one particular configuration. So, should I spend money on sights or more ammo?

[Steve_NEPhila]

Sights might not be the only problem!!!

I handles a few Springfield Armory compacts and Colt Commanders that have shot like absolute garbage. I have noticed on both pistols one very disturbing problem... two piece barrels!!! Welded together barrels, where the weld was right before the rifling started.

I am a pretty good shot, and I enjoy single action autos as much as the next guy. Of course, I prefer double action shooting in my fine wheel guns. Inspect that barrel real closely... it may be part of the problem.

[Sandcut]

Did you play around w/ different brands of ammo to see if they all produced the same results?

The reason that I ask is, my dad gave me a Henry Big Boy in .44 magnum several years ago for Christmas. (yes, it was a VERY good Christmas) The first time that I shot it, I couldn't hit the paper at 50 yards. I'm thinking "This gun is shite!" Ends up, I was shooting 180 grain at first. I went to 240 grain and it smoothed right out. It shoots rather reliably now.

While I realize that .45s will all (or is it mostly) be 230 grain, there may be some variability in the manufacturing methods that results in variability in performance.

Try ammo first. Then you can look to a smith.

[SCBaldr]

Sights might not be the only problem!!!

I handles a few Springfield Armory compacts and Colt Commanders that have shot like absolute garbage. I have noticed on both pistols one very disturbing problem... two piece barrels!!! Welded together barrels, where the weld was right before the rifling started.

Yup, thats why I don't really like commander size 1911s. I think your issue might just be that the fit of the grip isn't as good in your hands with the 1911 as it is with the P220. Most people don't realize how important the natural fit of the grip is. I'm convinced that this is why I shot tigher groupings with my USP 45 than I do with my P220.

[PennsyPlinker]

Sights might not be the only problem!!!

I handles a few Springfield Armory compacts and Colt Commanders that have shot like absolute garbage. I have noticed on both pistols one very disturbing problem... two piece barrels!!! Welded together barrels, where the weld was right before the rifling started.

I looked the barrel over real close, and if they welded two pieces together on this one, they sure did a fantastic job.

Did you play around w/ different brands of ammo to see if they all produced the same results?

...

Try ammo first. Then you can look to a smith.

I am going to try some more ammo, although the stuff I have shoots pretty good in my other .45s.

Yup, thats why I don't really like commander size 1911s. I think your issue might just be that the fit of the grip isn't as good in your hands with the 1911 as it is with the P220. Most people don't realize how important the natural fit of the grip is. I'm convinced that this is why I shot tigher groupings with my USP 45 than I do with my P220.

I am very much aware of grip and how it affects shooting. Many guns are too small for my hand, so I spend a lot of time working on the grip. Not only that, I teach tool handling in a discipline where grip affects the outcome. That is not to say I can't improve my grip though. Just because I know what I am doing in one thing doesn't mean I know what I am doing with something else. But I do recognize its importance.

I think I will try some different ammo, and a little more practice. How hard is that to take? Thanks for the responses guys.

[Pagoda240]

What distance were you shooting ? I have found that anything past 12 yards my Kimber UC II shoots low and left. Like you not happy with that but , i felt that was the trade off for carrying a 3in 1911.

[Lycanthrope]

Yup, thats why I don't really like commander size 1911s. I think your issue might just be that the fit of the grip isn't as good in your hands with the 1911 as it is with the P220. Most people don't realize how important the natural fit of the grip is. I'm convinced that this is why I shot tigher groupings with my USP 45 than I do with my P220.

Yeah, but he's shooting perfectly with the .22 conversion on the same grip so I doubt that's the issue.

I don't have a 1911 with stock sights. Sights can make a huge difference in precision shooting.

Still....I wouldn't do anything until I sat down and put that gun on a sandbag and made was sure it wasn't the gun or ammo.

Lycansystematicthrope

[PennsyPlinker]

Still....I wouldn't fo anything until I sat down and put that gun on a sandbag and made was sure it wasn't the gun or ammo.

Lycansystematicthrope

Sandbag. Now why didn't I think of that? Thanks Jeff. I will start there.

[Noah_Zark]

What Lycan said. (Tried to rep you, Lycan, but have to trowel some more around first)

The frame works for the Marvel .22 unit, so it's something about the 45 top end, or perhaps the frame and the top end in combination that's causing the problem.

For me, the three primary factors that prevent my shooting a 1911 well are:

1) Heavy trigger pull, > 4.5 - 5.0 lbs. I squeeze harder, and start shaking the weapon.
b) Short 1911A1 trigger -- HATE them.
iii) Finger placement on the trigger -- my medium-sized hands seem to "shoot best" when I center the first joint on a trigger on most handguns. This is especially true of Makarovs. If I use the pad of my trigger finger, it's a shotgun. If I hook the first joint on the trigger, the Mak shoots as if laser-guided.

For me, sights are not that much an issue. One of my most "accurate" 1911s is a box-stock RIA 5" "GI-type" Government Model with a 1911 trigger. It has historic 1911-style sights and I have no problem hitting claybirds on edge on the 25 yard berm with it. The trigger pull breaks between 4.1 and 4.3 lbs. I have a Series 70 Gold Cup with the GC Elliason rear sight that doesn't do as well as the RIA. But other folks' experience and ability may vary.

Like Lycan said, sandbag the Commander, then adjust the trigger pull down to the 4.0 to 4.5 lb range. Given your big mitts, I can't say if a short trigger or long trigger would be better. That you can shoot the Marvel conversion unit well with the existing trigger tells me it's good to go.

As experienced as you are, please forgive me for possibly stating the obvious here, but do some dry fire exercises where you aim at a spot on the wall and gently squeeze the trigger, watching the sight picture and sight alignment. If the sights don't shift with respect to each other, you should be fine. If the sights shift when the hammer drops, note where they shift and try repositioning your trigger finger on the trigger until you find the sweet spot.

Noah

[CHEMICAL]

I have had a compact Springfield .45 that was an absolute tack driver. The only reason I got rid of it was the failures with anything other than ball ammo.

That being said, exactly what kind of sights does the colt have? Novak low profile combat? (my favorite)....regular post and notch?....3 dot? Maybe the sights are off and you trying to compensate for them is what is putting your pattern all over.

I agree with Lycan...sandbag it, and dont move it at all to compensate for point of impact, keep it aimed exactly the same and see how your group is.