How can I do this legally?

[Jarhead0331]

Hey folks...I recently discovered this forum by chance...it looks like a real gem...Semper Fi!

On to business...I am a Texan, who lives in NYC. I own property in PA and spend probably about 2 to 3 months out of the year at my PA home.

Now, I do not have a NYC pistol permit. However, I own several handguns that are currently being held by my brother who still lives in Texas and I'd seriously like to rescue them by having him ship them to me in PA. I have both Texas and Florida State non-resident CCW permits and its my belief that these permits are reciprocal in PA (yes, I know there is a lot of debate on this issue, but I'm a lawyer and willing to fight for it if push comes to shove). I have a NY drivers license and this has been the thorn in my side...

So far, I have been unable to find a legal way to transfer or purchase a handgun in the state of PA...I've had no problems with long arms, but hand guns have been a no go.

Is there anybody out there who has any knowledge, advice, or suggestions on how I can legally obtain a handgun in the state of PA? The easy answer is to get a PA license, but I would have to surrender my NY license and then I'd be committing insurance fraud.

Thanks advance!

[knight0334]

Just load them up in a case(empty) in TX and drive to PA and leave them at your PA residence.

Or you can go to TX, package them up and ship them to yourself in PA via common carrier(UPS, FEDEX). They will have to go overnight though due to both carrier's policies.

...that is if you still own the guns. If you gave or sold them to your brother, it becomes an interstate transfer which a FFL would have to be in the loop.

No other problems about bringing YOUR firearms into PA.

Do yourself a favor though, get a PA DL when you can. Not sure what all is going on with your insurance.. if you get a PA issued policy it wouldn't matter.

[Jarhead0331]

Or you can go to TX, package them up and ship them to yourself in PA via common carrier(UPS, FEDEX). They will have to go overnight though due to both carrier's policies.

Are you SURE I can do this? My understanding is that UPS and Fedex policy changed after 9/11...

I could drive it, but I don't have the time to do that now...it would have to wait.

Getting a PA license would be fraudulent because I live in NY the majority of the year, but I'd be paying PA insurance rates which are much lower. This is illegal.

[knight0334]

Are you SURE I can do this? My understanding is that UPS and Fedex policy changed after 9/11...

I could drive it, but I don't have the time to do that now...it would have to wait.

Getting a PA license would be fraudulent because I live in NY the majority of the year, but I'd be paying PA insurance rates which are much lower. This is illegal.

Sorry about the insurance and residence problem.. try to defect to America some day. lol

Yes, you can do it. They may give you a hassle or not want to do it, but it IS legal and some drop off centers with knowledgeable employees will do it without giving you some attitude.

[God's Country]

Are you SURE I can do this? My understanding is that UPS and Fedex policy changed after 9/11...

I think you may be right about that. I'm sure a simple phone call would clear that up. I'm not sure about NY law, but could you have them legally shipped to a NY FFL, or however it is done there, and then transport them yourself to Pa?

With regard to reciprocity, our AG has cleared that issue up in your favor.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

Edit:

Expensive option: You may be able to fly to Texas, legally transport them on the plane. Fly to Pa and drive them to your summer home.

2nd edit:

Do you have to use fed ex or ups? Does DHL or Emery or one of those places use nest day service?

A bit crazy, but if the person holding your guns could disassemble them somewhat so they are in an unusable condition could they then be shipped in seperate parsels? Just so long as there is no one full assembly in any one parcel.

[Jarhead0331]

UPS and Fedex have there own policies which are more restrictive than what Federal law may (or may not) permit...

this is the UPS policy...

Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
Firearms will be transported only between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, law enforcement agencies of the United States or of any department or agency thereof and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency, or political subdivision thereof, and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws.

Under these terms, UPS has refused to let me ship even a long arm to myself...I had to use USPS for that one...

this is the fedex policy

FedEx Express can only accept and deliver firearms between areas served in the U.S. under the following conditions: You agree to tender shipments of firearms to us only when either the shipper or recipient is a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed collector and is not prohibited from making such shipments by federal, state or local regulations. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable state law.

Its essentially the same as the UPS policy...no go...

this is the USPS policy...

432 Mailability
432.1 General
The following conditions apply:
a. Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as handguns) are nonmailable in the domestic mail except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0.
b. The disassembled parts of a handgun or other type of nonmailable firearm that can be readily reassembled as a weapon are nonmailable except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.1.0 or C024.2.0.

Do you still think it can be done?

[Mtbkski]

Are you SURE I can do this? My understanding is that UPS and Fedex policy changed after 9/11...

I could drive it, but I don't have the time to do that now...it would have to wait.

Getting a PA license would be fraudulent because I live in NY the majority of the year, but I'd be paying PA insurance rates which are much lower. This is illegal.

Yes, they did change. My neighbor works there. But the change is this. You can not mail a rifle OVERSEAs anymore. You can still mail one in stateside.

[MarcS]

wouldn't the least expensive option here be to get a PA state ID (not a drivers licence)? Just bring a utility bill to a driver licence center and get a state ID for that residence.

[knight0334]

Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
Firearms will be transported only between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, law enforcement agencies of the United States or of any department or agency thereof and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency, or political subdivision thereof, and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws.

That above says it all...

Since you may lawfully own a firearm, both in TX and PA. And since they are yours. There is no laws against shipping a firearm(rifle or pistol) to yourself, not on state or federal levels.. Since the ownership of the firearms in question isn't going to change, its NOT an interstate transfer. The only thing the Feds can do is regulate interstate commerce, and there is no PA law prohibiting the mailing of a firearm to yourself.

[Jarhead0331]

That above says it all...

Since you may lawfully own a firearm, both in TX and PA. And since they are yours. There is no laws against shipping a firearm(rifle or pistol) to yourself, not on state or federal levels.. Since the ownership of the firearms in question isn't going to change, its NOT an interstate transfer. The only thing the Feds can do is regulate interstate commerce, and there is no PA law prohibiting the mailing of a firearm to yourself.

I argued the same exact thing till I was blue in the face and they refused...I even took it to their legal department. You may interpret it that way, and I may interpret it that way, but in the end, if they don't accept the shipment, who cares what we think?