SAF/Gura sue NY(Westchester) over CCW

[Defender]

As for Washington DC and Chicago, if you're referencing the Heller and McDonald cases, then you really should look back at the history of those cases before crediting the NRA with those victories, because it wasn't the NRA that truly won them.

And, frankly, the NRA is nearly a joke in Pennsylvania; if it wasn't for the smaller and more dedicated groups in Harrisburg Pennsylvania's gun laws would be WORSE than New Jersey's right now.

Does the NRA do some good? Hell yes they do, but at the same time they are basically treating PA as a money pit and spending very little time actually advancing gun rights in Harrisburg.

I'll give the NRA credit where credit is due, but they have some serious problems to work out, especially in PA.

So, the NRA had nothing to do with Heller and McDonald? So, the NRA is lying when they say they are now fighting to make DC's new law less restrictive? They are lying when they say they will fight to make Chicago's new law less restrictive also? And they are lying when they say they are and have been fighting Nutter in Philly? Come on!

[renegadephoenix]

So, the NRA had nothing to do with Heller and McDonald? So, the NRA is lying when they say they are now fighting to make DC's new law less restrictive? They are lying when they say they will fight to make Chicago's new law less restrictive also? And they are lying when they say they are and have been fighting Nutter in Philly? Come on!

SAF and GOA started both suits in Heller and Mcdonald then the NRA jumped in trying to play white night.

as for Philly, the NRA has DONE NOTHING TO FIGHT NUTTER since 2002.

[Defender]

SAF and GOA started both suits in Heller and Mcdonald then the NRA jumped in trying to play white night.

as for Philly, the NRA has DONE NOTHING TO FIGHT NUTTER since 2002.

FYI - Date Apr 17 2008 Item: In the first round of the latest battle over PA's firearm pre-emption law the NRA was handed a victory over the City of Philadelphia as a Philly County court granted the NRA's motion for a tempory restraining order against the city's newest gun control regulations.

Date June 6, 2008 Item: This week a PA court sided with the NRA and issued a permanent restraining order against the city of Philadelphia's municipal gun control measures enacted in April.

Date July 10, 2010 Item: "The NRA reloaded and fired off another attempt Friday to strike down Pittsburgh's lost or stolen gun ordinance". The full story is in the Pittsburgh Tribune Review.

Nothing since 2002?

[renegadephoenix]

06-08-2010; PA Supreme Court refuses to hear case on Philly gun laws, 3 upheld.

how many requests for donations have you gotten recently for bills like HB 40, that the NRA totes as it's own. They Have nothing to do with HB 40, or any of the other pro-gun leg. in PA.

you see the event posted in the bottom of my signature, if you want the truth that the NRA has and will continue to do nothing but ride the shirt tails of other .orgs, show up, if you don't believe me, don't show up.

[Defender]

06-08-2010; PA Supreme Court refuses to hear case on Philly gun laws, 3 upheld.

how many requests for donations have you gotten recently for bills like HB 40, that the NRA totes as it's own. They Have nothing to do with HB 40, or any of the other pro-gun leg. in PA.

you see the event posted in the bottom of my signature, if you want the truth that the NRA has and will continue to do nothing but ride the shirt tails of other .orgs, show up, if you don't believe me, don't show up.

I respecfully request that you re-read my previous post. Fighting Lost or Stolen is not Pa pro gun? Fighting Philly's egregious laws is not Pa pro gun?

[Defender]

06-08-2010; PA Supreme Court refuses to hear case on Philly gun laws, 3 upheld.

how many requests for donations have you gotten recently for bills like HB 40, that the NRA totes as it's own. They Have nothing to do with HB 40, or any of the other pro-gun leg. in PA.

you see the event posted in the bottom of my signature, if you want the truth that the NRA has and will continue to do nothing but ride the shirt tails of other .orgs, show up, if you don't believe me, don't show up.

So, if the PA Supreme Court refuses to hear the case it's the NRA's fault? Give me a break! The fact is they tried to fight the law. What's your problem with that?

And that's a great idea that that organisation is doing something. I support it wholeheartedly. We all have to work together.

[renegadephoenix]

I respecfully request that you re-read my previous post. Fighting Lost or Stolen is not Pa pro gun? Fighting Philly's egregious laws is not Pa pro gun?

In 1994 the ACSL took on the city of Pittsburgh over their Assult weapons ban and various other anti gun ordinances. in 1995 the ACSL won in Court and the City signed an agreement that the city would not enact anymore gun laws/regulations.

in 2008 when Lost and Stolen was passed in Pittsburgh, the ACSL brought suit. Then the NRA jump on board. The NRA refused to use the most damning piece of evidence to do away with L&S which was ACSL's agreement with the City.

The NRA contended that since the agreement wasn't an NRA Agreement that they wanted their own with the City. that didn't work, the case was thrown out since the NRA did not have Standing in the court to file a suit. the NRA then refused to back ACSL who does have standing in the court.

If the NRA would use existing case law, and really put money and pressure on the courts, things can change. But they want to do the minimum work with the minimum cost.

i don't know about you, but my rights are worth more than that.

So, if the PA Supreme Court refuses to hear the case it's the NRA's fault? Give me a break! The fact is they tried to fight the law. What's your problem with that?

And that's a great idea that that organisation is doing something. I support it wholeheartedly. We all have to work together.

my problem is they continue to Comprimise your and my gun rights instead of fighting for total abolishment of gun restrictions. i have seen my fair share of what the NRA has tried to do behind close doors.

People here know what Gun Rights mean to them, what do they mean to you, are you willing to do more than sit here being a keyboard commando telling us how great the NRA should be? are you willing to work with state .orgs that are doing more to fight for and protect your gun rights than the NRA is?

FOAC and other state .orgs do work with the NRA from Time to Time, when the NRA is willing to not Comprimise, but on the other hand we condemn them at every turn when they go behind the scenes and try to Comprimise your rights.

like i said, show up on the 31st if you want first hand knowledge.

[Defender]

In 1994 the ACSL took on the city of Pittsburgh over their Assult weapons ban and various other anti gun ordinances. in 1995 the ACSL won in Court and the City signed an agreement that the city would not enact anymore gun laws/regulations.

in 2008 when Lost and Stolen was passed in Pittsburgh, the ACSL brought suit. Then the NRA jump on board. The NRA refused to use the most damning piece of evidence to do away with L&S which was ACSL's agreement with the City.

The NRA contended that since the agreement wasn't an NRA Agreement that they wanted their own with the City. that didn't work, the case was thrown out since the NRA did not have Standing in the court to file a suit. the NRA then refused to back ACSL who does have standing in the court.

If the NRA would use existing case law, and really put money and pressure on the courts, things can change. But they want to do the minimum work with the minimum cost.

i don't know about you, but my rights are worth more than that.



my problem is they continue to Comprimise your and my gun rights instead of fighting for total abolishment of gun restrictions. i have seen my fair share of what the NRA has tried to do behind close doors.

People here know what Gun Rights mean to them, what do they mean to you, are you willing to do more than sit here being a keyboard commando telling us how great the NRA should be? are you willing to work with state .orgs that are doing more to fight for and protect your gun rights than the NRA is?

FOAC and other state .orgs do work with the NRA from Time to Time, when the NRA is willing to not Comprimise, but on the other hand we condemn them at every turn when they go behind the scenes and try to Comprimise your rights.

like i said, show up on the 31st if you want first hand knowledge.

My response to you was only to clarify that the NRA has done some things here in Pa when you said they have done nothing.

Look, I know the NRA has it's problems. I don't like the constant request for money either, but they do do their part in the fight.

I do what I can in the fight for gun rights. I am a supporting member here at PAFOA. I am a member of the Pa Rifle and Pistol Club, and when I get a few extra bucks I just might join FOAC. I am a longtime member of the NRA and I vote for those politicians who support us. When I engage those who do not support gun rights I explain our position and hope that they will think differently. I do what I can do in accordance with the limitations of my time and financial reality. Your charge of me being just a "keyboard commando" is not appreciated and is not supported by the facts.

I know you would like the "total abolishment of gun restrictions" and I also support that goal. But, we must be realists here. Short of a newfound desire for the politicians of our country to suddenly respect the U.S. Constitution and the various state constitutions that is not going to happpen. Compromise is part of politics. I don't like it, but that has always happend from day one. I for one shudder to think where we would actually be right now if the NRA hadn't done what they have done all these past years.

Unfortunately, as a over-the-road truck driver I do not have the time to attend your meeting. My back is against the wall financially and this requires me to work as much as possible.

I first heard of FOAC on the NRA news with Cam Edwards on Sirius Patriot radio. Cam has had the spokesman for the organization on as a guest many times already. He checks in with them regularly.

I see we have a bit of a disagreement here about the NRA and I respect your viewpoint. I trust that you will do good work at the FOAC and will look forward to any posts about them here at PAFOA.

[renegadephoenix]

My response to you was only to clarify that the NRA has done some things here in Pa when you said they have done nothing.
they have done some good, not to the extent most would like to see.
Look, I know the NRA has it's problems. I don't like the constant request for money either, but they do do their part in the fight.
i have more files and documentation than i care to post, that show how the NRA opperates here in PA. along with a ton of other important info that shows what some of the other PA orgs have done above and beyond what the NRA has. our NRA-ILA Rep, Hohenwater is not strictly for PA, he handles 7 states total and since FOAC and other .orgs are really moving the ball forward to restore more of your Gun Rights, he directs his efforts to other states.
I do what I can in the fight for gun rights. I am a supporting member here at PAFOA. I am a member of the Pa Rifle and Pistol Club, and when I get a few extra bucks I just might join FOAC. I am a longtime member of the NRA and I vote for those politicians who support us. When I engage those who do not support gun rights I explain our position and hope that they will think differently. I do what I can do in accordance with the limitations of my time and financial reality. Your charge of me being just a "keyboard commando" is not appreciated and is not supported by the facts.I appreciate what you are doing and support your efforts. let me know if there is any information you need if you have a hard headed legislature. i'll send you supporting documents to get your point across and sunk in.

as for the Keyboard Commando, i do appoligize for that, on this site we have a ton of people that want to keep their guns and complain when an ordinace gets passed restricting their gun rights. those are the ones who need to step up to the plate and start getting active in fighting to keep their rights instead of just complaining about the restrictions.

I know you would like the "total abolishment of gun restrictions" and I also support that goal. But, we must be realists here. Short of a newfound desire for the politicians of our country to suddenly respect the U.S. Constitution and the various state constitutions that is not going to happpen. Compromise is part of politics. I don't like it, but that has always happend from day one. I for one shudder to think where we would actually be right now if the NRA hadn't done what they have done all these past years.
The State Constitution is clear, " the right of the people to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state SHALL NOT BE QUESTIONED. right now we have 118 pages of gun restrictions that are Un-constitutional, 118 pages of comprimise (FOAC has whittled that down from 126 pages in 2008). i've been to Harrisburg regularly talking with politicians on both sides of the issue. i know how the game is played and what is at stake.

Unfortunately, as a over-the-road truck driver I do not have the time to attend your meeting. My back is against the wall financially and this requires me to work as much as possible.
I know how that is, currently i'm not working. i'm still trying to recover from a head/neck/upper back injury last year. my company won't let me go back to a modified duty job since it was a work related accident. i've beeen fighting for my workers comp benefits since last year as well.

I first heard of FOAC on the NRA news with Cam Edwards on Sirius Patriot radio. Cam has had the spokesman for the organization on as a guest many times already. He checks in with them regularly.

I see we have a bit of a disagreement here about the NRA and I respect your viewpoint. I trust that you will do good work at the FOAC and will look forward to any posts about them here at PAFOA.

Thank you, we do have some disagreements, but we fight for the same goal. Take care, good luck, and drive safe..

posts in red.

[andrewjs18]

You know, I was quite surprised myself when I heard they backed that despicable Harry Reid. But do you know why? It seems that Harry Reid has been very good on the gun issue. The latest thing I heard about him is he had something to do about setting up a range in Nevada. As for Mr. McCain, I don't like him either and I can't comment on why the NRA supports him. But he must've voted pro gun at one time or another. And I disagree with you that they worry about "how they'll look in the press". The NRA gets castigated by them whatever they do, even when they promote gun safety! The NRA has it's place and the smaller gun organizations have theirs. We have got to stop fighting among ourselves. That only helps the opposition. You are right though, in the end it's the people who have to be willing to defend the Constituion. I do it by just talking to folks and voting for the right candidates when I can find them.

take this for what it's worth. I don't like redstate.com, but here's an article talking about Harry Reid on 2A issues-
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/0...ng-harry-reid/