Conclusion: It's about the bang

[newskate9]

I'll share some perspective here and welcome others' comments, input. I'm not an expert as you'll see, but we all have to know what we know, you know?

I’ve been shooting about 4 years or so. My focus is self-defense/handguns (as opposed to hunting, target shooting, rifles, etc.). I have several handguns and rifles and I enjoy shooting them all. I set my guns up for their primary purpose: carry guns get certain ammo and practice, rifles are sighted for certain distances only, shotgun has HD ammo, etc. I practice as I normally plan to shoot the gun.

Ammo and size of gun for self-defense is a bird’s nest of opinion. What size gun for carry? How many rounds? What type ammo? What brand ammo? Everyone has a source they reference when answering the question and I can find in 5 minutes sources to prove any point I wish to make or take.

I also read many posts on what to carry. You need “knock-down” power. You need to hit a vital/motor organ to stop someone cold. You need to be able to hit multiple taps COM as fast as possible………. The list goes on. One reads about carry ammo. I can buy JHP 9MM for $0.40 per shot up to $1.00 a shot or more. Both go bang. Both work in my gun. So what difference does it make?

When I read ballistic reports, and look at gel tests it is interesting. When the same people showing me these reports are trying to prove points – yet carry a 380, or even a 32 or 22 as their carry weapon – this doesn’t make sense. If it were all about stopping power, wouldn’t everyone carry the “best” ammo, in a 45? Or perhaps it’s about being able to handle the gun at all – not all of us can handle an angry 45, or are big enough to conceal one.

So what is one to think? Here’s what I think.

It doesn’t matter. My coaching to a new shooter/self-protection kinda guy/gal is this:

1. Practice with your choice no matter what it is.

2. Carry what you are comfortable carrying. Comfort defined as: conceal if you want. Open if you want. Drawing. Aiming. Shooting and hitting. Reloading. Moving. Making safe.

3. Use good ammo. Good defined by: works in your gun. JHP for self defense. FMJ for practice. Cycle your SD ammo once in a while in a practice live-fire situation (this will show you many things). You don’t need to spend $1.00 a round. If WWB JHP goes bang every time, and you like it, use it. If I can put 3 quick shots (because I practice more) of the cheaper stuff where I want it, versus shooting all over the place with the “good stuff”……….. I’ll take the cheap stuff. After all, while I’m practicing with my 40 and wishing I could afford the best HD ammo, there’s someone right beside me very comfortable shooting a 22 all day long, putting 10 shots inside a 2" circle in one continuous shot!

So, I’ve stopped worrying about which ammo I buy. I buy the good stuff (as I’ve defined it). I practice a lot. At ten yards I can put 5 shots of the cheap WWW JHP inside a 4” circle, shooting as fast as my finger will pull. No higher priced ammo will make me better at that test.

I spent the first year or so of shooting worrying about every detail…… Now, I think I worry about the important stuff. As long as it goes bang when I pull the trigger - and it goes where I want it, I think that's about it, when it comes to ammo.

I welcome your comments.

[ mods please move this if in wrong place, thx ]

[Recoil]

If you are in a situation where you feel you need to use deadly force, I mean, in a situation where there is no way out, you have to actually draw your weapon to defend yourself or a loved one, simply having the weapon and displaying it will dispell the threat 97% of the time.

Simply, just having a gun is 97% of winning the battle.

[electronics]

...snip...
I spent the first year or so of shooting worrying about every detail…… Now, I think I worry about the important stuff. As long as it goes bang when I pull the trigger - and it goes where I want it, I think that's about it, when it comes to ammo.

In my opinion, once you're to the point where the amount of damage you inflict is affected most by which hollow points you use, you are pretty well set with the technical aspect of a forced shooting encounter. I'll take any ammo I've proven in my gun over anything else. Practicing running and gunning, reloading on the move, etc. can add greatly to your skill set and will definitely be tested in a defensive situation.

I can't see how just showing someone your gun will stop the threat 97% of the time. I think it'd be almost the other way around, but don't have any statistics.

[Shawn.L]

If you are in a situation where you feel you need to use deadly force, I mean, in a situation where there is no way out, you have to actually draw your weapon to defend yourself or a loved one, simply having the weapon and displaying it will dispell the threat 97% of the time.

Simply, just having a gun is 97% of winning the battle.

I wouldnt suggest adopting this mindset. When you come up against the career criminal who isnt impressed with you pistol your going to lose the fight before you even know your in one.

The gun is not a magick tailsman that dispells evil and makes the bad bad man go away.

[LittleRedToyota]

my two cents...

My focus is self-defense/handguns (as opposed to hunting, target shooting, rifles, etc.).

as is mine, though with some carbine for home defense thrown in.

I can find in 5 minutes sources to prove any point I wish to make or take.

not all source are equal, though. it is very important to consider how reliable the source is...and what they are basing their conclusions on.

Both go bang. Both work in my gun. So what difference does it make?

the effect they have on a human body makes a huge difference. and it is far from the case that all JHPs are equal in that regard. (how they penetrate barriers might also make a huge difference...depending on your situation...and all JHPs are far from equal in that regard as well).

When the same people showing me these reports are trying to prove points – yet carry a 380, or even a 32 or 22 as their carry weapon – this doesn’t make sense.

agreed.

1. Practice with your choice no matter what it is.

excellent advice. (though practicing sufficiently with HSTs or gold dots, etc. is financially out of the question for most people, and practicing with cheaper practice ammo most of the time is fine.)

2. Carry what you are comfortable carrying. Comfort defined as: conceal if you want. Open if you want. Drawing. Aiming. Shooting and hitting. Reloading. Moving. Making safe.

to a point. however, imho, if one is only comfortable carrying a .22, one should become comfortable with carrying something more suited to self-defense.

3. Use good ammo. Good defined by: works in your gun.

there is a lot more to it than that. all JHPs are far from created equal. some do not expand reliably while others do. some have issues with jacket separation while others don't, etc. etc.

If WWB JHP goes bang every time, and you like it, use it.

i disagree. i don't think WWB JHP expands as reliably or retains mass as reliably as better JHPs. and that is an important factor.

If I can put 3 quick shots (because I practice more) of the cheaper stuff where I want it, versus shooting all over the place with the “good stuff”……….. I’ll take the cheap stuff.

but that is a false choice. you do not need to practice with your carry ammo. the vast majority of your practice can be done with cheaper ammo. so practice with cheap ammo, but carry good ammo (regardless of how expensive it is).

No higher priced ammo will make me better at that test.

no. but you could do that practice with WWB FMJ for even cheaper...and then carry ammo that will reliably expand and retain mass in a human body--i would argue that using something other than WWB JHP will be better for that.

As long as it goes bang when I pull the trigger - and it goes where I want it, I think that's about it, when it comes to ammo.

i think you should also consider how the bullet reacts to the human body (er, really, how the human body reacts to it), to barriers, etc.

[andrewjs18]

9mm has been killing people fine for years so I'll keep shooting it.

[LittleRedToyota]

I can't see how just showing someone your gun will stop the threat 97% of the time. I think it'd be almost the other way around, but don't have any statistics.

i don't know what the percentages are...but the estimates for the number of defensive gun uses per year range from several hundred thousand to a couple million per year. while the number of times shots are actually fired in self-defense is counted in the thousands or maybe tens of thousands.

so, it does seem that a large percentage of the time, just showing a gun does stop the threat. one certainly cannot count on that happening in any particular instance, though.

[Cole]

Newskate9, I think you bring up some excellent points. I do think people get too hung up on equipment and could focus more on their own skills using what they have.

As for practice with plinking ammo or actual SD ammo, a lot of shooters and instructors I respect suggest we could benefit most by dramatically upping the amount of dry-fire practice they do.

[LittleRedToyota]

Newskate9, I think you bring up some excellent points. I do think people get too hung up on equipment and could focus more on their own skills using what they have.

absolutely. but, at the same time, all JHPs are far from equal. one might as well carry ones that perform reliably well upon impact.

As for practice with plinking ammo or actual SD ammo, a lot of shooters and instructors I respect suggest we could benefit most by dramatically upping the amount of dry-fire practice they do.

100%. dry fire is a very underutilized training tool.

[DonSmithnotTMD]

3. Use good ammo. Good defined by: works in your gun. JHP for self defense. FMJ for practice. Cycle your SD ammo once in a while in a practice live-fire situation (this will show you many things). You don’t need to spend $1.00 a round. If WWB JHP goes bang every time, and you like it, use it. If I can put 3 quick shots (because I practice more) of the cheaper stuff where I want it, versus shooting all over the place with the “good stuff”……….. I’ll take the cheap stuff. After all, while I’m practicing with my 40 and wishing I could afford the best HD ammo, there’s someone right beside me very comfortable shooting a 22 all day long, putting 10 shots inside a 2" circle in one continuous shot!

This the argument for 9mm. Might be something to it.