Cops shot by own guns vs. armed citizens shot by own guns

[mythaeus]

I DO NOT mean for this to make light of the fact that some of these police officers died putting their lives on the line. I'm just pointing out what I am noticing when doing research on this topic.

I keep getting annoyed by people who claim/perceive that if you carry a gun, you WILL be disarmed and killed by assailants. So far, I am not able to find any shred of evident to even remotely support that claim and neither could the agitators come up with any. What I DID find was that the majority of these disarmed and/or shot with own gun incidents happened to police officers. Given that cops constantly go INTO situations, it's almost a given that such incidents happen with higher frequency (and visibility). These are thus only anecdotal, but here are some of the stories I found, including the latest which happened recently in Chicago:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/24...070810.article
http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2...h_own_gun.html
http://www.homeland1.com/homeland-se...-with-own-gun/
http://www.odmp.org/officer/20059-po...-crittenden-sr.
http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/dpp/news...t-with-own-gun
http://lapd.com/news/headlines/lapd_..._news_service/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19418886/
http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_n..._shot_20090517
http://www.newstribune.com/articles/...8482145936.txt
http://www.odmp.org/officer/16847-of...t-allen-hylton

If anyone has stories about armed citizens disarmed/shot by criminals, please post them. I'm interested in how it happened (and frankly I haven't been able to find any story). Thanks.

Al

[Cole]

What I DID find was that the majority of these disarmed and/or shot with own gun incidents happened to police officers. Given that cops constantly go INTO situations, it's almost a given that such incidents happen with higher frequency (and visibility).

Does this also reflect the ratio of a very large number of police officers open carrying in relation to the relatively minute number of private citizens who open carry? No doubt police officers are in situations where they are more likely to be victims of gun grabs.

If anyone has stories about armed citizens disarmed/shot by criminals, please post them. I'm interested in how it happened (and frankly I haven't been able to find any story). Thanks.

Again, this could also reflect the small number of private citizens who are open carrying. I remember Ayoob writing about the other significant population of open carriers, gunshop owners/workers, being another uncommon target of gun grabs. It might be a good place to continue your research.

[ByblosHex]

This also interests me... I've heard of several police disarm cases but no civilian disarm cases. I do frequently OC in Philly and have never had a fear of being disarmed.

[Cole]

I have been trying to find that Ayoob article I posted a couple years ago, because he mentions study of civilian incidents. If memory serves correctly he discussed incidents of retail shop owners. I know he mentioned gunshops specifically, but I want to say also jewelry and others.

I regularly CC and even with my pistol drawn, I have a healthy (but not all-consuming) fear of my gun being grabbed. Not because anyone has actually taken my gun away from me in the past, but because it's possible and a risk that I can't totally ignore.

[ByblosHex]

I have been trying to find that Ayoob article I posted a couple years ago, because he mentions study of civilian incidents. If memory serves correctly he discussed incidents of retail shop owners. I know he mentioned gunshops specifically, but I want to say also jewelry and others.

I regularly CC and even with my pistol drawn, I have a healthy (but not all-consuming) fear of my gun being grabbed. Not because anyone has actually taken my gun away from me in the past, but because it's possible and a risk that I can't totally ignore.

I don't ignore the risk and I'm not careless or unaware, I just have replaced my fear with confidence... I guess it's a Marine thing, I don't know.

[Cole]

I'm sure that your self-confidence is well-deserved. Thanks for your service.

[ExCopInPhilly]

Police have to put themselves into situations that the average citizen, especially armed citizen, would tend to avoid or run away from. So, no matter what study you may find, it is not going to have accurate data. If you were to come up with a ratio of 1:100000 armed citizens that were shot with their own gun, comparing that to LEO's would still be skewed.

[tlgpa]

I have been trying to find that Ayoob article I posted a couple years ago, because he mentions study of civilian incidents.

This one?
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-car...tml#post340803

[ByblosHex]

Police have to put themselves into situations that the average citizen, especially armed citizen, would tend to avoid or run away from. So, no matter what study you may find, it is not going to have accurate data. If you were to come up with a ratio of 1:100000 armed citizens that were shot with their own gun, comparing that to LEO's would still be skewed.

Im interested in a "how often" sorta thing then a "compared to police" sorta thing.

[LittleRedToyota]

Does this also reflect the ratio of a very large number of police officers open carrying in relation to the relatively minute number of private citizens who open carry? No doubt police officers are in situations where they are more likely to be victims of gun grabs.

very, very good questions.

while i fully support those who choose to OC, i think the argument that "there have been very few non-LEOs attacked because of a criminal knowing they have a gun" doesn't really hold much water at this point. it is quite possible (i would say even likely) that that is explained in very large part by the small number of people who routinely OC.