Arrested for Having a gun in vehicle (with permit)

[Doc13067]

Hello. I was wondering if I could get some opinions on an incident that occurred in April. I have a valid PA LCTF for the record. I was driving up to allentown to get a cash loan from a family member for my newly started business and was armed. I had 2 handguns, my carry weapon and a new beretta I had just bought that I was going to show the family member I was going to see. The beretta was on my passenger seat and my glock was concealed although technically I guess they both were concealed since having a gun in a vehicle is considered concealing it. Well all of a sudden I'm getting pulled over by 4 state troopers at gun point. Im thrown on the ground and cuffed before I have a chance to ask what's going on and explain that I am totally legal. I was taken to the barracks where I was accused of waving a gun at 4 people which I most definitely did not do. I had to relinquish all my firearms (4 others) before I could be released. That could not happen that day so I had to sit in the county jail over night. 38 hours later I was released. I went to the preliminary hearing where I found that there was just one individual (not 4) and he didn't even call 911 or say I threatened him. He called the turnpike commission to report that he saw the gun in my car. I still had to plead guilty to summary harassment and summary disorderly conduct and my lawyer agreed I do that. Now I still don't have my guns back and I also lost my permit on top of now having a record when I never had one before. I am not exaggerating in any way or altering the story. That really is all I did. IS it just me or does this seem ridiculous? Any advice?

[PisnNapalm]

My advice to you is to not post another word on this or any other PUBLIC forum.

Someone here may contact you through private messages with advice/help.

[sk8r101all]

Hello. I was wondering if I could get some opinions on an incident that occurred in April. I have a valid PA LCTF for the record. I was driving up to allentown to get a cash loan from a family member for my newly started business and was armed. I had 2 handguns, my carry weapon and a new beretta I had just bought that I was going to show the family member I was going to see. The beretta was on my passenger seat and my glock was concealed although technically I guess they both were concealed since having a gun in a vehicle is considered concealing it. Well all of a sudden I'm getting pulled over by 4 state troopers at gun point. Im thrown on the ground and cuffed before I have a chance to ask what's going on and explain that I am totally legal. I was taken to the barracks where I was accused of waving a gun at 4 people which I most definitely did not do. I had to relinquish all my firearms (4 others) before I could be released. That could not happen that day so I had to sit in the county jail over night. 38 hours later I was released. I went to the preliminary hearing where I found that there was just one individual (not 4) and he didn't even call 911 or say I threatened him. He called the turnpike commission to report that he saw the gun in my car. I still had to plead guilty to summary harassment and summary disorderly conduct and my lawyer agreed I do that. Now I still don't have my guns back and I also lost my permit on top of now having a record when I never had one before. I am not exaggerating in any way or altering the story. That really is all I did. IS it just me or does this seem ridiculous? Any advice?

Bold. WTF for asshat lawyer did you have?

[Emptymag]

Yeah, I was wondering about the whole "had to plead guilty" thing.

Really? You "had to", or were strongly encouraged to do so?

[GunLawyer001]

... I was driving up to allentown . . . there was just one individual (not 4) and he didn't even call 911 or say I threatened him. He called the turnpike commission to report that he saw the gun in my car. . . . Any advice?

The time for advice was prior to you taking a plea deal. I'm guessing that you were on the PA Turnpike's Northeast Extension (from Philly to Allentown), and that the toll collector saw the gun on the seat.

If so, that was very explainable and totally legal, and a plea to 2 summaries, with the likely civil forfeiture of all your guns, seems like a bad call. If it was any other complainant, then I'm baffled. Guns on car seats shouldn't be seen by random motorists.

A lot of lawyers are no more sympathetic to gun issues than the general public. Anyone charged with firearms offenses really needs to find counsel that understands the issues, and is in no hurry to plead out to some lesser offense.

Sometimes even the innocent need to plead out, where the witnesses are arrayed against you and the cost of failure is much higher than the deal offered. But not just because guns are involved, I wouldn't plead out where there's no testimony beyond "he possessed a gun and he had a license".

[Wiley-X]

Methinks there's a part of the story yet untold.

[Connal]

Bold. WTF for asshat lawyer did you have?

My advice to you is to not post another word on this or any other PUBLIC forum.

Both of these are excellent points. I would edit your post, and not say another word on it, and then talk to a real lawyer who won't have you plead guilty to a crime you didn't commit.

I am not a lawyer

[Justin]

Methinks there's a part of the story yet untold.

Agreed.

Way too many holes in the story.

[God's Country]

The fact that your attorney did not seek the return of your property and your LTCF prior to the conclusion of your case speaks volumes IMO.

I’m guessing at this point you will need council to obtain your property.
I’m also presuming your LTCF was revoked by Philly and you did not file an appeal within 30days of the revocation. Which means one year from the revocation date you can reapply and after you get denied (almost a guarantee) you’ll need to make another trip to court to get your permit issued (hopefully).

Taking a plea is never as cut and dry as many people think especially with poor council.

[tlgpa]

I had to relinquish all my firearms (4 others) before I could be released.

How did they know you had 4 other firearms?

I still had to plead guilty to summary harassment and summary disorderly conduct and my lawyer agreed I do that.

You did not have to. Even if your lawyer recommended it, you do not have to follow his advice.

Any advice?

Nope. IANAL. I'd say get a new lawyer and appeal, but since you plead guilty I don't think that's possible.