Dad failed PICS, now what?

[PMigaj]

Hey, my dad is approaching retirement and wanted to get into some hunting. When we went to the store to buy a shotgun, he failed the PICS.

We looked over the Challenge form, and it seems anyone who has been convicted of a Domestic Violence offence is barred from purchasing a gun in PA.

It's the only thing we could think of that would apply, but that time was well over 25 years ago and the entire family is way past those old troubles.

Is there any way for my dad to legally buy and own/use a shotgun or rifle to hunt?
Is there anything we can do to help him?

Thanks in advance!

[pricedo]

Hey, my dad is approaching retirement and wanted to get into some hunting. When we went to the store to buy a shotgun, he failed the PICS.

We looked over the Challenge form, and it seems anyone who has been convicted of a Domestic Violence offence is barred from purchasing a gun in PA.

It's the only thing we could think of that would apply, but that time was well over 25 years ago and the entire family is way past those old troubles.

Is there any way for my dad to legally buy and own/use a shotgun or rifle to hunt?
Is there anything we can do to help him?

Thanks in advance!

I think there is federal as well as state law that speaks to the issue of a domestic violence conviction rendering one ineligible to possess firearms or ammunition. In some states a domestic violence rap is a misdemeanor but it's still an automatic bar like a felony conviction and it doesn't matter how old the conviction is. According to federal law a person convicted of domestic assault or violence is a 'prohibited person'. Don't take my word for it. Check with a lawyer. Applying for expungement or a pardon might help. Regardless, check with a lawyer. That's the only way you'll know for sure if your dad has any recourse or whether he's screwed for life from owning or possessing guns.

[Xringshooter]

Have him do the challenge form. If denied again, it will explain exactly why he was/is denied and he can then, with the help of a good lawyer (who knows the PA and Federal gun laws), see what can be done.

I am assuming he is a PA resident because of your wording of the questions even though you show a NJ locale. A person from NJ can buy a rifle or shotgun in PA but they MUST meet all applicable NJ, PA and federal laws.

If it is such that he cannot purchase a rifle or shotgun, he cannot be given or loaned one either. That is why it is best to talk to a good lawyer AFTER finding out EXACTLY what caused him to be disallowed from purchasing a gun.

[GunLawyer001]

Have him do the challenge form. If denied again, it will explain exactly why he was/is denied and he can then, with the help of a good lawyer (who knows the PA and Federal gun laws), see what can be done.

I am assuming he is a PA resident because of your wording of the questions even though you show a NJ locale. A person from NJ can buy a rifle or shotgun in PA but they MUST meet all applicable NJ, PA and federal laws.

No.

Seriously, on the challenge form (in PA, anyway) you have to make an affirmative statement that you are not prohibited, including the part about domestic violence convictions. It's a Federal offense to make a false statement for purposes of acquiring a firearm.

Talk to a New Jersey lawyer, I believe expungements are easier to get in NJ than in PA.

[Xringshooter]

GL, I see what you are stating, it was just the wording, to me, wasn't completely clear (more likely I flat read it wrong when I first read it), about the domestic violence issue. Now that I reread it, yes, he would have to reply in the affirmative that he was arrested (somewhere), and then he would have to answer where he was arrested and if it resulted in a conviction. The current challenge form (I have it right in front of me), on page 2, lists all the things that would make a person ineligible to purchase/possess a gun, including being convicted of a crime of domestic violence and the person filling out the form has to certify (self-certification) that none of the prohibitions apply to the filer. It appears that in this case, the Dad could not do this.

With this coming to light, I hereby withdraw my first paragraph of my first statement. I'm still not exactly sure where Dad resides.

Thanks for keeping me straight, I really don't want to give out bad info.

[Wiley-X]

It's called the Lautenberg Amendment. INAL but it's a strange law in that it punishes you for things that happened before the law was enacted. I had thought that was illegal in this country but evidently not.

Any form of domestic violence and you're screwed. I believe that I've recounted this story before but it deserves to be retold. I talked to a man who got into a fight with his brother, the police came, broke it up and their mother said take them to the magistrate. They plead guilty to Discordly Conduct and paid their fines and went on to productive adult lives. Twenty years later, Lautenberg passes and the sheriff comes to confiscate guns.

[pirateron]

No.

Seriously, on the challenge form (in PA, anyway) you have to make an affirmative statement that you are not prohibited, including the part about domestic violence convictions. It's a Federal offense to make a false statement for purposes of acquiring a firearm.

Talk to a New Jersey lawyer, I believe expungements are easier to get in NJ than in PA.

On behalf of all involved and not, THANK YOU. Your knowledge is invaluable here. You perhaps saved this person from making a grave mistake on some advice given in error.

Would rep you, but gotta spread the luv....

[PMigaj]

Hey guys, Dad lives in PA in Bucks county.

First, thank you for your replies and advice.

It's true that we are unsure as to what exactly is the problem with the PICS check, although we suspect its the Domestic Violence issue, as beyond that nothing else on there would apply.

However, filling out the challenge form would, as you pointed out, be breaking the law as you have to self-certify that none of the transgressions apply to you.

Is there any way to find out what the exact problem is without using the challenge form? I mean, its been 25 years, we're not sure, just guessing. That incident happened in NJ and it may not have been in computer systems back then.

Its seems funny going to a lawyer to say, "There is some problem, we have almost no idea what it is, please help". At least, that seems like an expensive way to deal with the issue. Those hourly rates are something else.

Is there some way he can ask to be given permission despite the negative record?

Also, what are PA laws on him just having a gun if he can purchase it elsewhere, such as another state? Can he legally use it to hunt here, is he going to get in trouble for having it?

Dad wants everything on the up and up legally.

If it helps, he wants to hunt water fowl such as ducks and whatnot, and practice shooting at clay targets at gun clubs. I don't know if there are any non-gun solutions to that but I can't think of any myself.

[GunLawyer001]

Hey guys, Dad lives in PA in Bucks county.

First, thank you for your replies and advice.

It's true that we are unsure as to what exactly is the problem with the PICS check, although we suspect its the Domestic Violence issue, as beyond that nothing else on there would apply.

However, filling out the challenge form would, as you pointed out, be breaking the law as you have to self-certify that none of the transgressions apply to you.

Is there any way to find out what the exact problem is without using the challenge form? I mean, its been 25 years, we're not sure, just guessing. That incident happened in NJ and it may not have been in computer systems back then.

Its seems funny going to a lawyer to say, "There is some problem, we have almost no idea what it is, please help". At least, that seems like an expensive way to deal with the issue. Those hourly rates are something else.

Is there some way he can ask to be given permission despite the negative record?

Also, what are PA laws on him just having a gun if he can purchase it elsewhere, such as another state? Can he legally use it to hunt here, is he going to get in trouble for having it?

Dad wants everything on the up and up legally.

If it helps, he wants to hunt water fowl such as ducks and whatnot, and practice shooting at clay targets at gun clubs. I don't know if there are any non-gun solutions to that but I can't think of any myself.

Start by going to the PSP website, spend the $10 or so to get a copy of his own criminal history, then go from there. You may find a reasonably knowledgeable attorney in Bucks county, perhaps in the Quakertown area...hey, now that I think of it, I'm in Quakertown myself.

Get the info first, see if you need legal help after that.

[Xringshooter]

Well, this time I think I'm right. If he is a PA resident, it doesn't matter if he could buy it somewhere else (he can't). A domestic violence conviction prohibits him from even possessing a gun. And he can't get one anywhere else because he has to fill out the federal form (4473) and it also asks these questions (about crimes committed, including domestic violence) and if any of the answers (#11 b. to 11 k.) are answered Yes, then by federal law he cannot purchase a gun. If he were to go through all the hoops and gets the conviction expunged, he gets a pardon, the conviction gets set aside, whatever, he could then answer No to these questions and be allow to purchase.

As for the other things, I would think he would have to go to NJ (not necessarily physically at first) to find out everything about his case. Was he arrested? Was he convicted? What was his sentence? All the who, what, why, where, when, how, etc. questions. Then talk to a lawyer to see what his options are to try to get it expunged, get a pardon, whatever.