being denied to carry because of references??

[edv177]

hello im new to Schuylkill and had applied to the local sheriff department for a ltcf and they returned the app saying i need to provide references from Schuylkill co.?? but i have been told any references are acceptable and they don't even have to contact the references to issue a permit. i don't know anyone from here and i'm single so i cant use a wife or girl friend at this time.
i've even tried to contact the sheriffs dept. any advice would be much appreciated...

thanks ED

[gbrown221]

The statute does not dictate that the references be residents of the Commonwealth let alone the county in which your are applying for a License to Carry Firearms. I would just list two references and submit your application. If the sheriff refuses to accept your application then file a pro se writ of mandamus or pro se law suit.

FYI: As others will be more brash. PA does not issue a permit to carry.

It is a License to Carry Firearms (LTCF)

[God's Country]

As already noted there is nothing in the UFA that requires county specific
references.

Your right to protect yourself cannot be denied because you just moved.
I would send them a certified letter explaining this. If you get no results contact an attorney and have him/her contact the sheriff's office. Something tells me that would yield results.

Please don't back down on this. Too many people do. Hold the sheriff's feet to the fire on this, and when you are successful do your best to get them to stop this illegal and unconstitutional practice.

You could also try to pm Gunlawyer001 I’m sure he will have good advise.


http://forum.pafoa.org/members/gunlawyer001/

[Michele]

hello im new to Schuylkill and had applied to the local sheriff department for a ltcf and they returned the app saying i need to provide references from Schuylkill co.?? but i have been told any references are acceptable and they don't even have to contact the references to issue a permit. i don't know anyone from here and i'm single so i cant use a wife or girl friend at this time.
i've even tried to contact the sheriffs dept. any advice would be much appreciated...

thanks ED

I was living here in PA a whole 3 weeks when I applied for my LTCF. I told the deputy that my references wouldn't be PA residents. He said "well they are supposed to be, what about a neighbor". I politely explained to him that I wouldn't ask my neighbors for a reference for anything being I'm a very private person and would rather my neighbors not know any of my business. He said "well, then put down somebody, anybody". I put down the required amount of references, friends in NYC. I got my LTCF, and my references were never contacted.

Best of luck to you.

[NikeBauer21]

hello im new to Schuylkill and had applied to the local sheriff department for a ltcf and they returned the app saying i need to provide references from Schuylkill co.?? but i have been told any references are acceptable and they don't even have to contact the references to issue a permit. i don't know anyone from here and i'm single so i cant use a wife or girl friend at this time.
i've even tried to contact the sheriffs dept. any advice would be much appreciated...

thanks ED

Like others have said, they don't need to be from the same county... But Sch.Co. is usually pretty good about the LTCF's (Groody issued mine)... I, nor any of my friends and family never had an problems with applying/renewing.. Try to put down 2 friends you know in PA, and see if it goes through alright...

[twoeggsup]

This stinks.

Sorry to hear that you have an uphill battle

The Sheriff's office is abusing it's authority and I do hope you hold their feet to the fire.

I sent a PM to Ironsight so he can add another county to the list of abusers.

[IronSight]

As others have said, fight this if you can. We need more people willing to stand up against these illegal practices.

These Sheriffs are not above the law, yet they continually act as if they are.

[tl_3237]

You have to be more adamant and go up the chain in the sheriff's office.

If all else fails, put down whatever two references you want to use (mine were from NJ) and go back down to the sheriff's office with a credible witness - make sure the application is totally correct to foreclose the sheriff from using some other basis for denial . Tender the application and, if the clerk refuses it, leave it on the desk - DO NOT accept it back; take a sworn statement from your witness as to the what occurred. Then wait 45 calendar days and if no results are forthcoming you can then either assume a denial and start an appeal or, as have already been said, get a writ of mandamus.

As to your witness, give him the application and have him make a copy. Let him retain both the original and copy. When you both go into the sheriff's office he can hand you back the original and attest that his copy is a true and accurate copy of the one submitted; sorta a chain of custody scenario.

Note that the statute does not require the sheriff's office acceptance of the application - only its receipt.

18 Pa CSA 6109(g) Grant or denial of license.--Upon the receipt of an application for a license to carry a firearm, the sheriff shall, within 45 days, issue or refuse to issue a license on the basis of the investigation under subsection (d) and the accuracy of the information contained in the application. If the sheriff refuses to issue a license, the sheriff shall notify the applicant in writing of the refusal and the specific reasons. The notice shall be sent by certified mail to the applicant at the address set forth in the application.

[tlgpa]

hello im new to Schuylkill and had applied to the local sheriff department for a ltcf and they returned the app saying i need to provide references from Schuylkill co.??

Did you provide any references or left them blank? If you did provide them (not from Schuylkill) and were denied, you should have been given an appeal form. Fill it out and start the process.
If you left the references blank, fill them in and resubmit your application. Then if you're denied, fill out the appeal form.
It should easily be over turned if that was the only reason they deny you.

I was living here in PA a whole 3 weeks when I applied for my LTCF. I told the deputy that my references wouldn't be PA residents. He said "well they are supposed to be, what about a neighbor".

That's the problem with this BS requirement. Ask a neighbor who you've lived next to for 3 weeks for a reference? What a crock of shit. Wouldn't the sheriff rather have a reference whom you've known for years as opposed to 3 weeks? I've been in my house about 4 years and I wouldn't be a reference for any of my neighbors! I don't know any of them well enough.
(Except my next door neighbor who I knew previously, and used him for my reference )
Goes to show the whole reference thing is just a sham.

[Michele]

And when my LTCF comes up for renewal, I'm going to use the same references I did when I first applied and for any other application after that.

Again, I don't want to just let "anyone" know my business. And I'm surely not inviting anyone into my business by asking them to be a reference.

What ever happened to privacy?