New Legislative Effort to get Bankruptcy Exemption….For Guns.

[ALS]

Don’t let Goldman and Bank of America repossess all the guns!

At his brand new blog (which you should be checking out) Adam Serwer discusses McDonald v. Chicago and concludes “The gun wars are pretty much over, and the gun rights side won. One wonders when they’ll will figure it out.”

Not so fast. There’s one last battle to be fought. A friend on the hill forwarded me the following. Supported by the NRA, Rep John Boccieri (D-OH) is pushing to allow firearms to be exempt from bankruptcy: “In those states that allow a debtor to use federal exemption law, this provision would prevent a trustee from selling a debtor’s firearms to satisfy the claims of creditors.” This amendment would make it so someone going through bankruptcy can’t have their guns liquidated and sold to pay off their bills.

I am all in if we can sneak “lien stripping” (mortgage cramdown) with it to help with the foreclosure crisis. We’ll be really quiet. Repossessed guns don’t reduce the value of their neighbors’ guns or devastate a municipality’s budget, unlike houses with foreclosures, so we have a good reason to ally. Team-up? The gun lobby gets everything, and I want to see what that’s like.

And if we can get the NRA to go against the banking lobbyists…we just might have a chance

Effort-to-get-bankruptcy-exemption-for-guns/

[Azzy]

Thats bull.. you owe some one, you pay it off. Firearms or not, you better be selling stuff to get bills paid and agreements met.

If you went out and charged up your credit cards on fancy AR's because "Obama's gonna ban all the guns and shoot my dog" then guess what.. its going to get repo'ed because you didn't sell it to get the bills paid.

The government has no place to say what is off limits property wise when you over extend your self. you have a right to keep and bear arms, not to have someone else pay for them.

[ksig1869]

Thats bull.. you owe some one, you pay it off. Firearms or not, you better be selling stuff to get bills paid and agreements met.

If you went out and charged up your credit cards on fancy AR's because "Obama's gonna ban all the guns and shoot my dog" then guess what.. its going to get repo'ed because you didn't sell it to get the bills paid.

The government has no place to say what is off limits property wise when you over extend your self. you have a right to keep and bear arms, not to have someone else pay for them.

definitely good post, rep ya next time

[wa3ra]

Let me know how you feel about it when your insurance 'lifetime' maxes out, your life's savings are gone, the money that you planned to buy a house outright with is gone, your 401Ks are emptied out, and anything of value that you had has been sold off just to pay co-pays and medical bills, and your bills are into seven figures, and rising by $60K a month.

Bankruptcy exists for a reason, my friend.

[Exbiker]

Let me know how you feel about it when your insurance 'lifetime' maxes out, your life's savings are gone, the money that you planned to buy a house outright with is gone, your 401Ks are emptied out, and anything of value that you had has been sold off just to pay co-pays and medical bills, and your bills are into seven figures, and rising by $60K a month.

Bankruptcy exists for a reason, my friend.

That's true BUT that is a very small group in the world of letting the rest of us pay.
Unless you can actually prove health or accident as a major player then everything should be liquidated except basic human necessities.
Obama care lifted the lifetime max on most policies.

[Azzy]

Let me know how you feel about it when your insurance 'lifetime' maxes out, your life's savings are gone, the money that you planned to buy a house outright with is gone, your 401Ks are emptied out, and anything of value that you had has been sold off just to pay co-pays and medical bills, and your bills are into seven figures, and rising by $60K a month.

Bankruptcy exists for a reason, my friend.

If anything of value has been sold off, then that means your guns as well And you know what? There are charities to help just about everyone out there.

Or, you can work out things like bankruptcy. Its there, and like many things, should be a last go to measure.

Just don't come get the government to say you don't have to sell a certain item to pay it back.

[Exbiker]

I'm not sure the logic some people use. Creditors are people and businesses that allowed a person or business to borrow money to purchase things. The debtor agrees by contract to pay back that money on an agreed upon time frame.
If you fail to keep that promise the creditor either eats the debt, passes the cost of your debt on to the rest of us (we pay your debt) or the creditor fails and the domino falls.

So who on this sight the flies the banner of personal responsibility also flies the flag of lack there of and thinks they have some inalienable right to keep firearms after defaulting on a promise????????????????????????

[Yellowfin]

Let me know how you feel about it when your insurance 'lifetime' maxes out, your life's savings are gone, the money that you planned to buy a house outright with is gone, your 401Ks are emptied out, and anything of value that you had has been sold off just to pay co-pays and medical bills, and your bills are into seven figures, and rising by $60K a month.

Bankruptcy exists for a reason, my friend.

THAT is EXACTLY why I and people like me sell disability and supplemental accident, cancer and critical illness insurance, and why it is an individual's responsibility to self and family to buy it. I talk to people all day and hear "Oh, that's alright man, we're good" then hear stories like this and it half makes me sad but half makes me royally pissed off knowing they could have prevented it. I tell people about this stuff all the time and some get the picture and some don't. Bad problem, tragic, but entirely preventable...but nearly nobody wants to hear it. Nobody wants an umbrella when the sun's shining.

[wa3ra]

When my little guy was born, we had the best policy that my company offered; I had around $120K in the bank to buy a house free and clear, 25 years worth of savings towards retirement. We actually had little debt outside of my wife's student loans; mine were just paid off.

Within the first 5 months ALL of it was gone; all my vacation time was gone, my wife needed surgery to try to put her back together, and my son was in the NICU more often than he was home.

Actually, Pennsylvania law provides for certain firearms in the exemptions; being broke doesn't preclude you from protecting yourself.

Don't kid yourself; there is State, Federal, and charity help, but you must be at the bottom before any of it kicks in, and all it is provides a safety net.

The few valuables that we have now are slowly being sold off to keep us afloat; when transplant time rolls around, we will have to guarantee several hundred thousand dollars above and beyond insurance and limited supplemental medicaid...

Some states allow almost NO exemptions; effectively the clothes on your back and food in your fridge (not the fridge, though).

I agree, you should pay your debts, but catastrophes happen.

I don't think that somebody should load up on guns knowing that they are going down, but nether do the courts...major purchases going back for some time are subject to liquidation.

The proposed exemption would allow a handgun and a rifle per adult to be exempted, it isn't unreasonable.

As I've said, bankruptcy shouldn't leave a family defenseless.

[Yellowfin]

Wow, that is really awful. I'm very sorry to hear that. That shouldn't happen to anyone but too often it does. Keeping this from happening to people is what I try to do everyday; not easy work at all to say the least. Hard thing is that while everyone's busy doing what we do to make money and living the life we're providing for, just like cars or teeth regular checkups on your insurance are recommended but not a whole lot of people think to do them, nearly never a priority. Most problems simply hit us from the blind side because we can't watch every single direction all the time.

[Public service announcement because I care]

Most company offered insurance programs are good but comparatively low dollar amounts. (Not a knock on them, just the facts.) Group life insurance is usually $30,000-40,000 tops which is only about 10% of coverage that an average family needs, but it's so easy to say "Oh, I have insurance, I'm good." Employer sponsored group disability insurance is often much the same, low dollar coverage for a cheap price AND usually non-portable: change employers and your coverage goes away or it costs 10x as much. Most don't cover your retirement savings contributions either, or increased earnings as your career progresses. It's easy again to say "I have some, so I'm done." But most people don't see this come up until it bites them, and like you said, then it costs you everything.

Health insurance is getting higher and higher with deductibles and/or lower coverage levels simply because it's getting so expensive on both ends. The whole problem of networks throws in a lot of curves--when you need something from a doctor that isn't in network then OUCH OUCH OUCH. Everything really does seem out to get you. Hospital costs are a minefield and you're on a pogo stick.

But the alternative is worse: if we get more regulations and/or "reform", then only 4 things can happen: 1) Prices go up 2) coverage goes down AND therefore we pay more 3) underwriting gets worse, meaning more people and/or conditions are excluded...guess what, we pay more or 4) companies drop out of the health insurance market b/c it's unsustainable.

Not fun stuff. But this is why I cannot stress enough that everyone should GET A GOOD INSURANCE PROFESSIONAL to work with you and see them minimum once a year if not every 6 months. Not websites, 1-800 numbers, or just whatever lowball cheapy stuff. You know what a cheap mechanic costs--hell, I do because it just cost me $4500 in repairs for damage that happened b/c they didn't do it right fixing a $100 problem. Cheap lawyers get you broke or in jail or no time with your kids. Cheap roofers or plumbers get you water damage and mold.

[/Public Service Announcement]