Carrying firearms at veterans hospitals.

[XD45]

Is it illegal? I never heard of it being a nono, but I guess its a federal building? any lawyers that can chime in would be greatly appreciated.

[Steve in PA]

I don't recall if its illegal, however I'm pretty sure its at least prohibited.

[Statkowski]

Get caught carrying a firearm in a V.A. Hospital and you'll be visiting the nearest federal magistrate, losing your firearm and a bunch of dollars, too.

The law follows. The authorities will focus on subsection (a) and totally disregard the wording of subsection (d)(3) regarding "the lawful carrying of firearms incident to ... other lawful purposes."

Your having a License to Carry Firearms, valid throughout the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, will mean nothing to the corrupt federal judiciary.

Got lots of money? Try fighting the charges. Your attorney will appreciate your deep pockets and will give you little in return.

18 U.S.C. § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to –

(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e)

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).

(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.

(g) As used in this section:

(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.

(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

[KeithPA]

(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

Is it actually a federal facility? Are the nurses and dotors federal employees? Are their official duties federally related?

[27hand]

Is it actually a federal facility? Are the nurses and dotors federal employees? Are their official duties federally related?

I believe they are.
I have worked about a half dozen construction projects at the VA hosp in Pittsburgh over the past 3 years.
I just got word that 1 renovation project I was scheduled to do at the VA Hospital was cancelled. I have a smaller job that will start next week.

The Va Police at this facility are pretty decent guys. They offered up to fingerprint me for my Utah CCW and we discussed the carrying of firearms at this location.

I asked if there was signage related to carrying of firearms into the hospital. I was told there is but personally never see any signs forbidding it.

I also asked if they had any provisions to "hold or secure" firearms for people who
do carry to the hospital (forgetful if you will) and was told they might offer up the service for LEO. I was told by the head of security that since we just had the discussion, it would be in my best interest to not carry there. I won't and also carry my knife (the one I need to open packages) completely in my pocket and not clipped into the pocket.

27hand

[TheBuckslayer]

Is it actually a federal facility? Are the nurses and dotors federal employees? Are their official duties federally related?

Employees at a VA hospital are federal employees. My mom has a friend who worked at the VA hospital in Lebanon, PA. He is retired now, but was indeed a federal government employee.

Edit, just saw this part in the post from Statkowski:

(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

sounds like the same law they have in place for carrying in schools? I wouldn't want to pay for the lawyer that has to prove it though.

[Steve in PA]

Remember the saying, "innocent until proven guilty".

The prosecution would have to prove that carrying a handgun is "not" a lawful purpose. The person being prosecuted doesn't have to prove anything, merely read the law showing "for other lawful purpose" and say, show me where I did something wrong.

There is no way the prosecution could do this, because by doing so that would label a legal person, carrying a legal handgun minding his own business as doing an unlawful act.

[Zef_66]

Isn't there some kind of federal law that mandates that a sign must be posted at the entrance stating that it is a federal facility and firearms are prohibited?

Might be out of the water on this, but I thought I read that somewhere...

[KeithPA]

Isn't there some kind of federal law that mandates that a sign must be posted at the entrance stating that it is a federal facility and firearms are prohibited?

Might be out of the water on this, but I thought I read that somewhere...

I think your right on that one. Federal buildings sure have them, federal courthouse does. Although they all have guards and metal dectectors.

[craigc]

I do know The Coatesville VA has posted signs all over the place and were as I used to carry there all the time now I just lock it in my truck