question re selling M1911 target gun

[serge88]

Hi everyone . I’m new to PAFAO and am writng this to get some advice on selling a pistol .
In 1990 I (a complete novice) thought I’d try target shooting and had a 1911 type target 45 built by a gunsmith in eastern PA – forget exactly where he was located- I live in New Jersey . When I got it I fired it once (15 rounds target loads) and then put it away in storage for 20 years – never fired it since
Since I’m not into the “ gun scene” I thought I could use some advice in how to market/sell this gun.. I know if I took it to a gun shop they wouldn’t give me half of what it’s worth so I haven’t even bothered to try this route.
Except for the grips the gun is a real “Ugly Betty” on the outside. For some reason the gunsmith had it blued a kind of a deep plum brown color especially pronounced on the slide , and also put his “mark” prominently on the right side of the slide. It has a Caspian Arms frame , the barrel is stamped “KART45 cal” and the sights are “BOMAR” . The grips are a nice two tone wood but the rest of the gun seems pretty plain jane. It is however essentially new and almost unfired.
The real workmanship is inside where everything was done to make it as accurate as possible . When I got it I was told by the smith that even for a good barrel it really grouped well so I think he really put his heart into it . It was probably test fired by him more than I fired it it. He was probably a better shot than me too! I’m sure he’s retired or passed on by now .
I really think that this pistol should be purchased by someone who is an active shooter , especially target shooting since this is what it was made for . If they want to put some bells and whistles on it they can. If someone put a standard main spring in you could shoot full charge loads in it too. But I’m selling it exactly as I bought it. I have all the paperwork somewhere and it goes with the gun if you want it .
So how do I connect with shooters who would want and appreciate this pistol? And how do I get an idea as to what I should expect to get for it ? I am selling what is essentially a new, custom built , barely fired , very(I think) accurate 1911 45 target gun . I remember when I field stripped it for it’s one and only cleaning , the parts were really ,really tight.
I’ve seen the price on Gold Cups and some other “custom” jobs but haven’t a clue as to where this gun stands. A lot of what I see looks to be more “fluff” than “stuff”. When I bought it the price was a little under a thousand dollars which seemed a lot at the time and I hope it has retained its value ., maybe even appreciated some since . It’s been carefully stored – absolutely zero rust , corrosion etc.
If anyone can help me here I’d appreciate it . If a picture would help I can try and take one and get it posted .
Thanks.

[Pizza Bob]

A picture (actually multiple pictures) would be a big help. Also, you need to find out who the gunsmith was that built it - a thousand dollars was not a lot of money in 1990 for a custom-built target 45. I spent that much just in modifications (not inclusive of the gun) in the mid-80's, and it was a tactical arm, not target.

The Caspian frame, Bomar sights and Kart barrel sound like he used good components - but who knows - the name would help a lot. A list of modifications would go far in selling it also (bill of sale?). No one wants to buy somebody else's mistake, so the credibility of the gunsmith and what was done is a big factor.

You have the added hindrance of being a NJ resident. Out of state sale will have to go through a dealer and in-state will require the purchaser to have an FPID and a Permit to Purchase - all w/address matching the buyer's DL (in-state can be done FTF, but may be better to go through an FFL just to CYA). Out of state means you have to ship to an FFL. If you ship direct, it must be by common carrier (UPS / FedEx) overnight (can be expensive). If you have a local FFL ship it, they can use the USPS, but the dealer will charge a fee on top of the shipping charges.

I'm not that far from you. While I have no interest in purchasing this gun, I'd be willing to look at it and offer an opinion (yeah, I know - just like a$$holes, everybody has one) and take pictures and help you post them here and on a NJ gun forum. PM me if you want to avail yourself of my offer.

Good luck.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

[punxsutawneypete]

From your description of where the gunsmith operated, it sounds like Austin Behlert did the work.

[Ronnies111]

A picture (actually multiple pictures) would be a big help. Also, you need to find out who the gunsmith was that built it - a thousand dollars was not a lot of money in 1990 for a custom-built target 45. I spent that much just in modifications (not inclusive of the gun) in the mid-80's, and it was a tactical arm, not target.

The Caspian frame, Bomar sights and Kart barrel sound like he used good components - but who knows - the name would help a lot. A list of modifications would go far in selling it also (bill of sale?). No one wants to buy somebody else's mistake, so the credibility of the gunsmith and what was done is a big factor.

You have the added hindrance of being a NJ resident. Out of state sale will have to go through a dealer and in-state will require the purchaser to have an FPID and a Permit to Purchase - all w/address matching the buyer's DL (in-state can be done FTF, but may be better to go through an FFL just to CYA). Out of state means you have to ship to an FFL. If you ship direct, it must be by common carrier (UPS / FedEx) overnight (can be expensive). If you have a local FFL ship it, they can use the USPS, but the dealer will charge a fee on top of the shipping charges.

I'm not that far from you. While I have no interest in purchasing this gun, I'd be willing to look at it and offer an opinion (yeah, I know - just like a$$holes, everybody has one) and take pictures and help you post them here and on a NJ gun forum. PM me if you want to avail yourself of my offer.

Good luck.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

What Bob said!

[serge88]

Well , I got the camera and took some photos. It actually doesn't look to bad when laid on the blue velour! The NJ forums would be helpful . Thanks eveyone. I'll dig up the paperwork, but I don't think ther's a lot of details on it .

Doug

[Ronnies111]

Well , I got the camera and took some photos. It actually doesn't look to bad when laid on the blue velour! The NJ forums would be helpful . Thanks eveyone. I'll dig up the paperwork, but I don't think ther's a lot of details on it .

Doug

That's a nice looking 1911, I especially like the grip's. I have not seen that pattern before... I like them! I can't tell you what it's worth but it look's like the guy who did the work knew what he was doing. Well I far as the pics look anyway

[Pizza Bob]

The grips are Herrett's. G. Madore was a known gunsmith, primarily known for work on bullseye (2700) guns and a mount that he made for optics. From a reference I found in another forum's thread, he apparently has passed.

Your gun would be of most value to a bullseye shooter, but given today's propensity for optics use, it may make it more difficult to sell even to them. With the sights high-mounted, and no beavertail (fine for bullseye - not desireable for carry/tactical applications), you have a somewhat limited market. Now take that with a grain of salt, because, afterall, it IS a 1911 and they have a following all their own.

If you find the bill of sale, it would help because it would tell us what all was done and likely what components were used (non-obvious ones, like the trigger - looks like a Videcki, but a lot of people made three-hole long triggers). From the photos I can see the front strap was checkered and it appears the mainspring housing is checkered also (hard to tell for sure).

If you paid <$1K for this, I think that you will probably be able to get your money out of it. Even though this builder was well-known in the bullseye community, it's not like you are selling a Baer or Wilson, which I see fairly often in the $1500 - $1800 range, used, with more work than this gun. I have a friend that shoots bullseye, I'll let him know what you have and see if he'll posit an opinion.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

[serge88]

Thanks . I got out the original invoice and it doesn't have any details on it other than listing the gun new and "paid' with his signature . The address is George Madore ,405A Brookhaven ,PA . If I recall his shop was part of his residence. Perhaps he didn't list the parts because he was building the gun himself from the ground up with all parts ordered by him personally . Plus it wouldn't have meant much to me anyway at the time . I'll be interested in your friend's opinion about this.

one more pic.attached showing other side.

[Smity]

Hey Serge,
I'm "the friend" . I shoot bullseye, but I have to admit, I have never seen one of these before.

I see that you are in Princeton Junction. I live in Hamilton. If you want, we can meet at Citizens Rifle and Revolver Club on Princeton/Hightstown road. I am a member there and I can sign you in as a guest. I'll bring a 1911 customized by Clark (a well known 1911 gunsmith). We can compare the two and put a target up at 50 yards and see how she shoots (match ammo, of course).

I wasn't planning on buying another 1911, but if it looks good and for the right price, you might be able to talk me into it. I have a PPP ready to go. It's just a few more days until I can buy another handgun (OGAM sucks).

Pizza Bob, why do you tempt me like this. I have bills to pay, ya know!

Bob

[Pizza Bob]

Pizza Bob, why do you tempt me like this. I have bills to pay, ya know!

I just love to spend other people's money