AR-15 Ammo Question for 5.56 chambered rifles

[PhilaShooter]

So I was at the Gun Show this weekend in VF, I was looking for various things but first and foremost I was looking for GOOD deals on ammo, not range ammo but good quality SHTF ammo ya know.

I came across 308AMMO MAN, he seemed like he had pretty good deals too. Upon looking around and talking to him I decided to purchase 500 rounds of SS109, Israeli M855, from what I am told it's the exact same as the Lake City Military issued M855 "Green Tip" just produced in Israel and doesn't have the green tip....is this correct ????

The markings on the bottom of the casing are as follows; SADU 08 5.56. There is a red ring around the end of the bullet where it enters the case and is krimped, it also is slightly on the very top around the case as well.

He seemed on the up and up with me so I purchased it, is ANYONE farmiliar with this particular ammo ??? Is it the "real deal" M855 stuff ??? Does/Has anyone ever used this exact ammo or bought any ?

Also does anyone know what "SADU" stands for....I tried looking it up on the web but couldn't find anything about it. I did find that the Israeli M855 has an "08" on the bottom of the casing, as mine does, which leads me to believe that it is SS109 from Israel, but I figure it's always good to make 110% sure it is what it's supposed to be, right ?

Also if anyone has some insight on the round itself, it's capabilities, it's short commings, ect....They say it's a great penetrating round from what I've read about it, not a long distance round though, IIRC the typical distance where maxium capability of the rounds penetration and fragmentation is 300m ? I have read where there's been a lot of complaints from way back to the Gulf War, Somalia and present day Iraq and Afganastan, inparticular the M4 because of the 14.5" barrel, the M855 was not fragmenting at the right moment, creating a lack of stopping power. I have a 20" barrel 1:9 twist and is chambered in 5.56 so I know I can shoot this stuff, and from what I've read it's a lot better comming from the M16's 20" barrel. Still it has fragmentation issues with the 20" barrel though, most of the articles I read say to keep it inside of 140m for it to effectivly fragmentate on your target.

Last thing, if there is any "better" 5.56 ammo out there like this stuff but more consistent with fragmentating and/or stronger, more knock down power, please let me know (I am thinking of grabbing another 500 rounds tomorrow.)


Thanks, PhilaShooter

[Shawn.L]

Last thing, if there is any "better" 5.56 ammo out there like this stuff but more consistent with fragmentating and/or stronger, more knock down power, please let me know (I am thinking of grabbing another 500 rounds tomorrow.)


Thanks, PhilaShooter

If you want this ammo for SD/HD you will be better served not getting military style ammo.

75 Grain Horandy TAP

Here is a thread with THE BEST internet response Ive ever seen about the TAP round:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=54808

[PhilaShooter]

If you want this ammo for SD/HD you will be better served not getting military style ammo.

75 Grain Horandy TAP

Here is a thread with THE BEST internet response Ive ever seen about the TAP round:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=54808

Thanks I appreciate your suggestion. My only problem with that stuff, although it is good stuff I'm sure, it's VERY expensive...I am looking to grab 5,000 rounds to store. That stuff would cost's about $1 a round !!! The Military stuff from what I've read is really good stuff, not just the M855 but there's some other stuff that's good as well, if anyone knows of any better please share, thanks.

Also you can't get Hornady TAP in 5.56 unless authorized by a LEO from what I just read in that thread you posted the link to.....????? That sux !!! While I could use .223 in my M16 style chambered in 5.56 I'd prefer to stick with 5.56 ammo ya know. Using .223 can cause loss of accuracy, ect...

Why do you say not to use Military Surplus btw ??

[Lycanthrope]

Because you can find civilian bullets and ammo that will expand or fragment at ranges well beyond what surplus ammo will....

...and shooting .223 versus 5.56 ammo in a 5.56 chamber isn't going to change accuracy. The 5.56 ammo is loaded hotter, but bullet choice and quality will have a much greater impact.

Lycanslightchangesthrope

[Watchman]

A friend recently stated that he would rather have a few hundred rounds of the Horandy TAP on hand for SHTF/HD/TEOTWAWKI than a few thousand of mil-surplus. He is an ammo guy and I trust his knowledge. He even went on that M193 et. el. (the 55gr nato stuff) is actually better than M855 for our purposes. Apparently M855 tends to put little holes in things and goes strait through and is actually dangerous in urban settings due to over travel. M855 was designed to pierce light armor. The M193 wants to tumble as soon as it hits just about anything and the energy bleeds off rapidly. As soon as M193 hits flesh it tumbles and breaks apart leaving more damage in its wake.

So... for Home defense, M193 is not a bad choice if quantity is in order as it will stop your average un-armored thug just fine without the bullet ending up in the next county. M855 if you're going to defend against armor wearing zombies.

Okay, why Horandy TAP? It is a modern bullet designed to penetrate and expand.

FWIW, I stick with M193 for range and SHTF as I have a few rounds on hand.

However, I also have 5 mags full of Horandy TAP 75gr for immediate "oh shit" needs.

Google the head stamp markings, that's how I find out about any particular mil-surplus find.

1:9 twist. You should be GTG but I would recommend testing a few rounds at least at 50 yards to check for any keyhole issues. I have a 1:9 twist barrel and it seems to stabilize a 75gr bullet just fine. However, not all barrels are the same, some 1:9 barrels have been known to choke on the longer heavier bullets, test before you purchase.

[Guns4Fun]

LC m193 is 55g mil ammo. That is what i shoot.

You can find 5.56 tap on line at various places. I wont give up my source though - sorry.

If you consider 5.56 75g Tap make sure it shoots well out of your 1/9 barrel before you stock up. With 1/9, sometimes the heavy bullets don't do too well. That is why i like 1/7. It will shoot 55g thru 75g.

Why do you need to stock up 5k rounds? I stockpile ammo too but i usually only have 1k of TAP and several K of "other" for general plinking.

[PhilaShooter]

A friend recently stated that he would rather have a few hundred rounds of the Horandy TAP on hand for SHTF/HD/TEOTWAWKI than a few thousand of mil-surplus. He is an ammo guy and I trust his knowledge. He even went on that M193 et. el. (the 55gr nato stuff) is actually better than M855 for our purposes. Apparently M855 tends to put little holes in things and goes strait through and is actually dangerous in urban settings due to over travel. M855 was designed to pierce light armor. The M193 wants to tumble as soon as it hits just about anything and the energy bleeds off rapidly. As soon as M193 hits flesh it tumbles and breaks apart leaving more damage in its wake.

So... for Home defense, M193 is not a bad choice if quantity is in order as it will stop your average un-armored thug just fine without the bullet ending up in the next county. M855 if you're going to defend against armor wearing zombies.

Okay, why Horandy TAP? It is a modern bullet designed to penetrate and expand.

FWIW, I stick with M193 for range and SHTF as I have a few rounds on hand.

However, I also have 5 mags full of Horandy TAP 75gr for immediate "oh shit" needs.

Google the head stamp markings, that's how I find out about any particular mil-surplus find.

1:9 twist. You should be GTG but I would recommend testing a few rounds at least at 50 yards to check for any keyhole issues. I have a 1:9 twist barrel and it seems to stabilize a 75gr bullet just fine. However, not all barrels are the same, some 1:9 barrels have been known to choke on the longer heavier bullets, test before you purchase.

I should elaborate more on the 5,000 rounds....I didn't mean ALL M855 lol, I just meant I couldn't buy ALL 5,000 rounds in TAP as it would cost dayum near 5 grand for that.

Idealy for SHTF I would like to have about 1,500 rounds of M855 for it's penetrating capabilities.

2,500 rounds of M193 for it's better take down power with no armor or any kind of steel in the way.

Then 1,000 rounds of some really good stuff, for a "oh shit" scenario like you said.

The only thing that turned me off from Hornady TAP was it said you could not buy 5.56x45 unless LEO approved, something along those lines.

Also what type of AR do you have with the 1:9 twist that works well with 75gr. ammo ? I have a Stag Arms 20" barrel 1:9, I'll have to call them and verify that 75gr. will or will not work well in mine I guess.

Thanks for the suggestions, much appreciated.

...and shooting .223 versus 5.56 ammo in a 5.56 chamber isn't going to change accuracy. The 5.56 ammo is loaded hotter, but bullet choice and quality will have a much greater impact.

From what I read about shooting .223 in a 5.56 chambered rifle it could negativly effect your accuracy....as I said it's only what I read, I have never tested myself or asked anyone who has how it works and they didn't say it definitly would effect it just it's possible. That's why I originally said I wouldn't want TAP in .223.

If in fact it does not effect accuracy then I'm happy as a pig in shit LOL. Thanks for clarifying that for me btw.

[Guns4Fun]

Just remember - your POI is going to be different for each of those rounds.

I'd seriously suggest taking a carbine class. This will help you make realistic ammo / gear selections.

The reality of an actual SHTF situation where you are going to be able to switch ammo for each situation is going to be slim to none. I know people like to daydream about the blue helmets marching down the streets and Red Dawn scenarios - butttttt...........

I stockpile ammo because I like to have a lot of ammo on hand. Not so much for the zombie apocalypse but because of availability and ever rising costs. I also have different AR's that are "set up" for different ammo because I have 2AR's for every family member.

My sbr's all run 75g tap. Everything else is m193.

[PhilaShooter]

Just remember - your POI is going to be different for each of those rounds.

I'd seriously suggest taking a carbine class. This will help you make realistic ammo / gear selections.

The reality of an actual SHTF situation where you are going to be able to switch ammo for each situation is going to be slim to none. I know people like to daydream about the blue helmets marching down the streets and Red Dawn scenarios - butttttt...........

I stockpile ammo because I like to have a lot of ammo on hand. Not so much for the zombie apocalypse but because of availability and ever rising costs. I also have different AR's that are "set up" for different ammo because I have 2AR's for every family member.

My sbr's all run 75g tap. Everything else is m193.

I would also suggest you take humility classes, you come off VERY rude because you don't agree with someone else.

As far as my REASONS for wanting 3 diffrent types of ammo, they are good and logical, maybe not in YOUR opinion but in MINE they are. Just because someone differs on their views of something does not mean they need classes. BTW I know each diffrent type of ammo has a diffrent POI.

As for the M855 and Hornday TAP, I won't be taking them to the range ALL the time just to pratice my shooting. I will however take all 3 types, pratice separatly with each, get a real good feel for them. Master each ones POI for my rifle and then practice switching between the 3. Shoot 5 rounds of M193 then adjust for the TAP then the M855. (Idealy) being able to adjust my sights before I fire a diffrent round, and making sure I come close to my target.

The reason for stockpiling more M193 is because that's what I would use for most basic range trips and to try and save money since the cost of ammo is constantly going up. While keeping the M855 and the TAP for a SHTF scenario.

Also if you had ASKED I would have told you I am in the market for a SBR AR upper, but with a fixed muzzle break to make it legal lenght without obtaining a tax stamp, then I will build a . That is what I would be using the TAP in, and the M193 also. While using the M855 and M193 in the M16 style w/20" barrel. This way the M16 will be strapped around my back and the M4 in my hands loaded with TAP.

As far as being able to change ammo you said chances are "slim to none"...........?????? I guess you don't change mags when your shooting....??? You must not. So your saying that if I had 5 mags of TAP, M855 and M193 I couldn't change them out fast....??? You can change a mag out in seconds if neccessary that way.

Picture this scenario, there a car with 4 guys 100m away driving toward you. You have TAP in the current mag in your rifle, keeping the TAP in there in case someone or something catches you off-guard. You can EASILY pop the TAP mag out and pop in a M855 mag and by this time maybe they are 25m closer. Still far enough away not to see you if your in cover and close enough to strike fast and hard with ammo that will penetrate the car.

Or if your going to sweep a house to make sure it's clear with the M4, before entering pop the TAP mag out and throw in a M193 mag....really pretty simple.

Maybe a SHTF scenario will never happen...maybe it will though. Either way that's up to each person to either believe or not.

[tdyoung58]

I am looking to grab 5,000 rounds to store.

By the time you need that much there will be plenty laying around

I usually just keep about 1k on hand, mostly Prvi P. buy a few boxes every week then use a foodsaver to seal it up in packs of 200.

for the range I just shoot whatever I can find that's cheap.... usually Federal .223 (reloadable comercial brass) can get a box of 100 for $40 usually.

Have one mag with soft point stuff for HD JIK