Gun transportation from canada via Ground mail

[DanFromPA]

hello, i used to live in winnipeg, manitoba, canada.
my dad has passed several years ago and left his collection with me and my brother, my brother....brought the collection to one of my dads old "collector/seller friends".

this guy is now in possession of over 50 pistols, last year we talked to him and he said there were several restricted pistols, that he had "destroyed" he did not give us proof...

anyways to make a long story short, me and my bro did not have F.A.C.'s which is required to possess any gun in canada

now....HERE in PA, after doing some research, i believe i can own a gun(s) without having a license of any sort, unless i want to conceal, or transfer in vehicle.

i just want them back, they are sentimental, and this "dealer/collector" doesnt want to give them to me...

if anyone can clarify the laws, and maybe point me in the right direction with advice, i would be GREATLY appreciative as i am kinda lost on what to do

[HiredGoon]

Does your brother have any type of receipt from this collector that he gave the guns to?

[DanFromPA]

im not sure, but he did take photos of every gun before giving them to the guy, they were all registered with the gov via my dad, he had a license to posses restricted guns

edit: also dont you get papers of some sort with serial #s and model when official destroying them?

[bogey1]

edit: also dont you get papers of some sort with serial #s and model when official destroying them?

sounds like your dads friend stole some of your guns. i would report them stolen.
how can a handgun be restricted? full auto? smooth bore? im kind of out of the loop on nfa stuff. sounds fishy.

[DanFromPA]

sounds like your dads friend stole some of your guns. i would report them stolen.
how can a handgun be restricted? full auto? smooth bore? im kind of out of the loop on nfa stuff. sounds fishy.

im guessing the military, and the 32's
i think he had some really old 1800's guns that werent modified to some code or something

edit: sommin about a law that was passed in 98? registration, and grandfathering of the guns, i know le gave him a hard time (they didnt know squat what they were doing)

[ErSwnn]

sounds like your dads friend stole some of your guns. i would report them stolen.
how can a handgun be restricted? full auto? smooth bore? im kind of out of the loop on nfa stuff. sounds fishy.

We're talking about Canada here, they have very restrictive gun laws. And from what I've read, not much improvement over England and Australia.

OP, you've got a tough nut to crack in this. All sorts of laws to navigate from two countries and international laws. My suggestion is get a lawyer in Canada and one here. I'm assuming what your trying to achieve is feasible but it's going to be difficult. As suggested above I too side with reporting the missing guns stolen. But talk to a Canadian lawyer first, alerting the authorities may cause other problems such as them confiscating the guns as unregistered. Your father has passed away, you don't have legal possession and yet another party has physical custody. Sounds like the perfect excuse to confiscate them for "the public good". Best of luck to you on this. And please keep us informed, it'll be interesting to see how this goes and one day maybe advise another to read this thread when it comes up again.

[15Truckman]

What did your brother bring them to your father's collector friend for? To hold? To transfer? Are there any receipts? Any agreements between them, either verbal or written?

[DanFromPA]

We're talking about Canada here, they have very restrictive gun laws. And from what I've read, not much improvement over England and Australia.

OP, you've got a tough nut to crack in this. All sorts of laws to navigate from two countries and international laws. My suggestion is get a lawyer in Canada and one here. I'm assuming what your trying to achieve is feasible but it's going to be difficult. As suggested above I too side with reporting the missing guns stolen. But talk to a Canadian lawyer first, alerting the authorities may cause other problems such as them confiscating the guns as unregistered. Your father has passed away, you don't have legal possession and yet another party has physical custody. Sounds like the perfect excuse to confiscate them for "the public good". Best of luck to you on this. And please keep us informed, it'll be interesting to see how this goes and one day maybe advise another to read this thread when it comes up again.

arg, im not in a financial situation to be hiring a lawyer, or worse 2

What did your brother bring them to your father's collector friend for? To hold? To transfer? Are there any receipts? Any agreements between them, either verbal or written?

he brought them there(i wasnt aware) to sell because he moved out to colorado for a couple years
def a verbal agreement
ill ask my brother if he got any sort of receipts

[ErSwnn]

I can understand not being able to afford the lawyers. All I can suggest is to begin reseaching the laws of both countries and act accordingly. This isn't going to be easy, your dealing with both firearm laws and probate laws. But doing nothing insures your going to lose the guns.

[gold cup abuser]

May not be that difficult........

from this web link found what I'm posting below:

http://www.sunblest.net/gun/Import.htm




A personal experience, 1999 - Note: Laws, regulations and costs may have changed since ---

1. Find a seller and agree on the price and decide, who pays shipping and other fees. If you pay everything, your final cost will be 50%-100% higher than the selling price, depending mostly on quantity. (If you just import one gun, your final cost will be around twice the selling price) Firearms must be in Canada 5 years before they can be imported. (BATF rule)

2. Find the right importer (it took us 6 months to find one), we can recommend: Leroys Big Valley Gun Works
200 1st Avenue North
Glasgow, Montana USA 59230
Telephone: 406-228-4867
Contact Denise Tiffany

3. Send the following info with the copy your FFL/C&R, and the importer's fee to the importer: Make, model, caliber, length of barrel, serial number, price in US$

4. Importer will complete a BATF Form 6A, and send it to BATF for approval.

5. Wait 2-3 months (normally)

6. Importer will call you and the seller when approval is received. Pay seller (if you did not pay him yet - it's a good idea to withold the payment or just pay a deposit first, until BATF approval - just in case you are refused). I purchased a Certified Check at a bank during my business trip in Canada. You will have to pay an additional $25 to $75 (or so) if you buy a Cert. check or Money order in the U.S. in Canadian funds. I believe the importer has to send some paperwork to the seller to include in the box with the firearms - but I am not sure.

7. Wait again. Shipping firearms inside Canada is more restricted and expensive. The seller can shop around for the best price. My seller found a trucking company to ship to the border. It was about 25% cheaper than UPS.

8. The customs people will inspect and play with the firearms. Minor damages can be expected. I got one bolt jammed, loose pieces (bolts, handguards, and a dustcover were mixed and packed with the wrong rifles, but nothing significant. ;-)

9. The importer will pickup the firearms from customs.

10. The importer (Leroy's) stamps a very tiny import mark on the receiver in the slot under the bolt in the tang. The lettering height is less than 1/32 of an inch - almost totally invisible. I wish other importers would do it the same way.

11. Pay the importer the customs fees and the shipping to you. Wait some more.

12. The importer will ship to you (or to your FFL)

The cost of my purchase and importation:

(These costs were for 8 rifles, importing a smaller number of rifles will result in a higher per rifle costs. Customs fees vary, based in the value of the firearm, and the country of origin.)

I purchased the following 8 'Curio and Relic' rifles:

Swedish Ljungman AG42B
Canadian Ross M1910 Mk3
Japanese Mukden Arisaka M38
Thailand Arisaka M38
Siamese Mauser M1902
Swedish Oberndorf Mauser M96/38
Chinese Mauser M98k
French Berthier 1907/15 Turk Orman conv.
for a Total of US$532 ($800 canadian)

Cost of shipping from British Columbia to the border near Glasgow, Montana by a Canadian trucking company (found by the seller) was about US$120

Customs fees and transportation from the border to the importer in Glasgow was about US$90

Importer's fee to Leroys Big Valley Gun Works $80 ($10 per rifle, $50 minimum)

Shipping from Montana to Ohio was about $50 using RPS

The total cost of the 8 rifles was about US$870.

I hope, this helps. It is not as difficult as it looks. Good luck.






The following comments were submitted by Ken Buch:


- No 5 yr letter required except for surplus military.
- Handguns have some additional requirements.
- There is a excise fee due to ATF, 11% on rifles/shotguns and 10% on handguns based on your final cost including shipping.
- The wait now with ATF is closer to 6 months but I have had it go over 1 year.
- If US Customs requires a "formal" entry add about $200 to the cost.
- My experience has been there are a million ways for this to cost more than you expect, if you are importing "cheap" guns (costing less than a couple hundred a piece) I always try and go for a 20-30 gun min. shipment. That way if/when something gets more expensive than planned you have more to prorate the cost over.
- Non-military C&R guns can be imported directly by the C&R holder.
- The Form 6 is available on-line at the ATF website.
- I use a customs broker and do formal entries, could I save some on small shipments trying to do a informal entry? Maybe but you might have 2-3 trips to the airport and waste hours of your time trying to do a informal entry on your own. Every port of entry does and treats things a little differently.
- Antiques - plan on being able to "prove" to Customs they are pre 1899 or be prepared to loose them.