I have a question about DA/SA pistols w/o external safeties

[runningfast]

I could understand the case with old SAA revolvers, but nowadays when modern SA/DA pistols (like the SIG P-series, for instance) are prevalent... why are people not okay with carrying the weapon cocked? They have a locking firing pin safety, yes? And people are totally fine carrying weapons with similar trigger pulls (like Glocks, which have less than a lb heavier trigger than a P-series in SA) on a loaded chamber.

I guess I don't understand why it being DA/SA makes so many people nervous. Why are people who are comfortable carrying polymer weapons (no safety) cocked/tensed and loaded... not comfortable carrying a modern, well designed DA/SA autoloader in the same condition, with the hammer cocked?

[SCBaldr]

I think the answer is that logic doesn't really have much to do with people's comfort/preferences. Sigs are totally drop safe, just like glocks, XDs, HKs, and FNPs. Also remember that the Sig is specifically designed with LE in mind. Sometimes, you'll have to come out of the holster with no warning, and get shots off quickly, with or without a proper grip. Sig saw having to adjust your grip or click off safeties as potentially deadly when every milisecond counts. The only real mental stumbling block is that the Sig has no external safety, unlike the glock which has a trigger safety or the XD which has both a trigger safety and a grip safety. The Sig however has four internal safeties. Here is a good example, I was issued a P229 standard model as a training gun during my Federal Law Enforcement firearms instruction. Someone remarked in front of the instructor when he was explaining about the guns being totally drop-safe, about how they just couldn't believe that 100% drop safety was possible. The order came, "Everybody, charge your guns. DO NOT de-cock. Everybody, toss your guns! Don't argue with me just do it! Why do you care about damage, your not footing the bill!" So everybody tossed their guns, cocked with a round in the chamber. Nothing went boom. The proof was in the pudding as it were. Before then, I was a little wary of a gun with no manual safety. Since then, it hasn't bothered me a bit and I actually prefer it now.

[anonymouse]

So everybody tossed their guns, cocked with a round in the chamber. Nothing went boom.

How many is "everybody"?

[kcr121]

Here is a good example, I was issued a P229 standard model as a training gun during my Federal Law Enforcement firearms instruction. Someone remarked in front of the instructor when he was explaining about the guns being totally drop-safe, about how they just couldn't believe that 100% drop safety was possible. The order came, "Everybody, charge your guns. DO NOT de-cock. Everybody, toss your guns! Don't argue with me just do it! Why do you care about damage, your not footing the bill!" So everybody tossed their guns, cocked with a round in the chamber. Nothing went boom. The proof was in the pudding as it were.

That instructor is an idiot. "100% drop safety" is not physically possible, because a safety is a mechanical device, and mechanical devices can and do fail. Throwing firearms with chambered rounds as a trust exercise is a display of exponentially-multiplied stupidity.

[JoeyBones]

I could understand the case with old SAA revolvers, but nowadays when modern SA/DA pistols (like the SIG P-series, for instance) are prevalent... why are people not okay with carrying the weapon cocked? They have a locking firing pin safety, yes? And people are totally fine carrying weapons with similar trigger pulls (like Glocks, which have less than a lb heavier trigger than a P-series in SA) on a loaded chamber.

I guess I don't understand why it being DA/SA makes so many people nervous. Why are people who are comfortable carrying polymer weapons (no safety) cocked/tensed and loaded... not comfortable carrying a modern, well designed DA/SA autoloader in the same condition, with the hammer cocked?

If you carried a P-series Sig w/ a cocked hammer, if would take only a glancing touch of the trigger to drop the hammer, at which point the round will certainly fire, since the trigger to the rear would defeat the FP safety...

If you want to carry a gun in SA mode, a thumb safety is a must. Glock-style pistols are only partially cocked before the trigger is pulled (not true DA nor true SA, really), and there is also much more travel in a Glock-type trigger than in a Sig P-series trigger in single action mode...

I can't imagine why anyone would want to carry a Sig P-series cocked? Maybe I misunderstood the question, though...

Regards,

Bones

[JoeyBones]

The order came, "Everybody, charge your guns. DO NOT de-cock. Everybody, toss your guns! Don't argue with me just do it! Why do you care about damage, your not footing the bill!" So everybody tossed their guns, cocked with a round in the chamber. Nothing went boom. The proof was in the pudding as it were. Before then, I was a little wary of a gun with no manual safety. Since then, it hasn't bothered me a bit and I actually prefer it now.

Wow; Hard for me to say after the matter as it were - But I do believe I would argue at least a little bit!

Very bad idea to "test" a safety mechanism w/ live ammo, IMO...

Regards,

Bones

[LittleRedToyota]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to carry a Sig P-series cocked?

they are trying to get around the inherent design flaw of DA/SA (which was a solution to a non-existent problem in the first place) without actually getting rid of the DA/SA gun.

(good explanation on the difference between doing this and carrying a glock, btw.)

[LittleRedToyota]

Wow; Hard for me to say after the matter as it were - But I do believe I would argue at least a little bit!

i think i would have asked for a refund and left the class personally...but, to each his own.

[SCBaldr]

I didn't say it was a good idea to do what my instructor did. I'm only using it illustrate that 24 trainees, tossed 24 loaded and cocked guns and nothing went boom. I personally wasn't going to argue with a ranking officer in a military style structure, but there were those who did for the same reason that was mentioned above, if the trigger were hit, the gun would go off. That is not really possibility on a flat, smooth concrete floor.

I'm not defending the lack of logical safety minded-ness. If it were my class, I wouldn't tolerate any Tom Foolery with loaded firearms.

[anonymouse]

they are trying to get around the inherent design flaw of DA/SA (which was a solution to a non-existent problem in the first place) without actually getting rid of the DA/SA gun.

(good explanation on the difference between doing this and carrying a glock, btw.)

What is the inherent design flaw of DA/SA?