Friend was stopped and disarmed tonight

[jcabin]

I agree to an extent...but as soon as you say Yes I am armed, it takes the situation to a whole different level. We go from about a 2 to a 6 or 7

How about this, "Officer, I have my license to carry and my firearm is in X location". That would be the appropriate response to the question "do you have any guns in the vehicle". When you jump the gun and say "I don't have anything illegal in the vehicle" when that is not the question asked, it raises a flag.

[emsjeep]

What's with the "I don't have anything illegal" bullshit? The cop asked a straightforward question, so give a straightforward answer. It seems to me a lot of the people on here are unreasonably jerking around LEOs and wonder why they get butthurt when a cop treats them the same.

Not saying that a straightforward response to the question would've made the situation come out any different, but it would not have hurt.

It has nothing to do with the stop. Are they entitled to ask if I have a dildo in the trunk? What about a map of Bangladesh? If I divert those questions do I deserve to get pulled out of the car, battered and arrested? Its a fishing expedition that they have no right to conduct, nothing more.

[Curmudgeon]

I have a friend who would always oggle my guns. I think everyone at one point has heard from a non owner wow i want one of them. Well i convinced my buddy to get one. Forced him to get his LTCF because he just wasn't making the connection between OC and the being in a vehicle and how its a no no for just taking a ride.

In my area their is a big ass feast, festival, carnival, what ever you want to call it. He was in the area and he was pulled over for what ever reason.

The cop approached the car and asked for the usual, ran his info. He came back and asked him if he's been drinking ( huge beer at this place).

I schooled him as best I could on 2nd amendment rights and 4th. I made him watch the hour or so thing on youtube. Basically a intensive crash course for beginners. We went over if your stopped.....

The cop asked him any drugs, guns or ..... in the car. He said I don't have anything illegal in the car. So I guess this got the cops attention and he said what do you mean? He's like answer my question is their any fucking drugs or guns in the car. He said I have nothing illegal.

I'm sure you know what happened next. He was removed from the car and searched. He was CCing something, when the cops found it they acted as if they were lil kids at an easter egg hunt and they found the golden egg.

So at this point his cuffed, on a sidewalk with an uncertain future and cops who think they just found a terrorist. Long story short, everything checked out and he was issued a ticket for failure to observe traffic devices or something.

They gave him back his gun, without his ammo lol and he said whoa whoa whoa wheres my fucking ammo. He told me at this point he had a ticket and wasted a shit load of time, the time to be polite is over. They said that had to confiscatie it for safety reasons. He said bullshit are you going to pay me for those? That's my PROPERTY, NOT YOURS. So after a 5 minute debate and them not wanting to return it he said listen either you give me back my property your stealing or I'm filing a report.

They tossed the ammo to him and took off.




So he calls me pissed as hell saying hey man you said to say i don't have anything illegal in the car and they wouldn't bother me.

What else could he have done to avoid all that bullshit?

The answer to your question (highlighted in blue), lies in the event you told about (highlighted in red).

Bottom line, don't give them a reason. Already pulled over, presumably for a traffic infraction, your buddy then provides an evasive answer to a direct question, raising the cop's suspicion. It's OK, I guess, if you can pull it off. Seems he couldn't since the cop got suspicious.

Everything else that happened could be justified as "officer safety". It may be boring as all hell to drive like grampa when you're young, but when you're armed, the payoff is you get to carry for self-defense without (hopefully) getting jacked up.

You don't say how long he was cuffed and disarmed at the side of the road, but I'll bet it was under an hour, possibly under a half hour. He gets his firearm, ammo, and LTCF returned to him, and a citation for his driving. It could have ended worse. Look up the Doctrine of Unclean Hands. It doesn't make a lot of sense to complain about being cuffed and disarmed after you've already been stopped for a traffic violation.

I'd like to think the LEOs were a little over the top, but I think a reasonable argument exists that he brought it on himself. There are plenty of people who don't like us carrying. Don't give 'em any ammo to use against you.


ETA: oh, right, usual disclaimer, IANAL, and I have no cites handy.

[den9]

why did they pull him over in the first place?

if anything he should of said i dont have any drugs or ILLEGAL weapons in the car.

or just be straight up, i dont see what the big deal if they disarm you for the stop, its for their safety.

[jcabin]

or just be straight up, i dont see what the big deal if they disarm you for the stop, its for their safety.

Because it's a rights violation. If you were black, but unarmed, should you be taken from the car and cuffed, just for officer safety?

[DonM55]

Bottom line the questions been asked and there's no correct response that fits every leo.

[jcabin]

Bottom line the questions been asked and there's no correct response that fits every leo.

There is. Apparently the supreme court doesn't agree though. I learned alot about our founding fathers this past week while I was in williamsburg. Alot of the mystery behind some of their intent has been taken away.

However, the constitution is what it is. It should be obeyed, and WE KNOW BETTER NOW. This shouldn't be happening.

[YllwFvr]

why did they pull him over in the first place?

if anything he should of said i dont have any drugs or ILLEGAL weapons in the car.

or just be straight up, i dont see what the big deal if they disarm you for the stop, its for their safety.

Any unecessary handling of a firearm, especially one they may not be familiar with, increases the risk of a negligent discharge. So by disarming you they could be putting you, themselves, and bystanders at greater risk. Not all cops are gun junkies. Some never touch one beyond the one issued to them.

This is beyond the fact that the Pa constitution says your right to keep and bear arms shall not be questioned.

[DonM55]

There is. Apparently the supreme court doesn't agree though. I learned alot about our founding fathers this past week while I was in williamsburg. Alot of the mystery behind some of their intent has been taken away.

However, the constitution is what it is. It should be obeyed, and WE KNOW BETTER NOW. This shouldn't be happening.

Agree but the question is asked and at that point there is no correct answer the will fit every encounter. Mine ... yes officer I have a LTCF and I'm transporting a weapon. End of conversation

[jcabin]

Agree but the question is asked and at that point there is no correct answer the will fit every encounter. Mine ... yes officer I have a LTCF and I'm transporting a weapon. End of conversation

It's hard to guage how an officer will respond. That being said, I agree with your take on what should be said to the question asked. However, if you plan on deceiving LE in PA, atleast be smarter about it(as it is not illegal to lie to the police IIRC, but take into consideration that they will make your life really shitty if they see that you lied to them intentionally). Saying what the OP's friend said raised red flags instantly. Perhaps the OP should have gone to greater lengths to make his friend aware that saying "I do not have any illegal drugs or guns in my vehicle" as an automatic response to any variation of the question is probably a terrible idea.