Forcibly removed from apartment and disarmed - with no crime comitted

[ViperGTS19801]

Let's say the police get a phone call from a person of unknown reliability, who says she is calling because a man outside started a fight with her boyfriend, and is screaming and yelling at him and waving a gun around. Let's also say that when the police arrive, they find out where the reported man lives, and can see him through his porch door, sitting on the couch watching TV. They can see that he is armed.

What do you think is the appropriate course of action for the LEO's to follow at that point?

[bgeddes]

They would probably knock on the door and see if the accused answers. Based on his reaction and statements they can make a call from there.

They could determine if they have enough cause for a warrant and execute accordingly.

They could do the Janet Reno thing and kick in the door and burn the house down.

[MDJschool]

The term "unknown reliability" makes a warrant question harder, since the way you are using it might be slightly different that the prescribed analysis of reliability by a court.

However, if the exigency no longer exists, invasive action would no longer be allowed. A) Stick around and wait to see if he comes out again and try to initiate a mere encounter, or knock on his door expecting the same, or B) find the alleged victim and interview, same with the witness, file a criminal complaint if you can believe a probable cause or direct the alleged victim to do the same.

What is it you expect out of this scenario?

[pirateron]

Recent news items would indicate a "flash bang" grenade thrown through the window, a couple rounds from the 9mm following, kick in the door, a lot of yelling and screaming, and if the person survived, an arrest. Of course, some would say its all justified, because they got a "tip".

[LittleRedToyota]

Recent news items would indicate a "flash bang" grenade thrown through the window, a couple rounds from the 9mm following, kick in the door, a lot of yelling and screaming, and if the person survived, an arrest. Of course, some would say its all justified, because they got a "tip".

what recent news items?

[ViperGTS19801]

Interesting - that's a hell of a spread.

I wanted to portray only the information that the police were given, so as to convey an accurate idea of what the LEOs had to work with.

Last evening, while watching the Flyers game and having a few beers, I realized I had yet to burn some music CDs and put in my recently acquired car's CD changer. I burnt a few discs and went out to the car. To make sure the player worked (with used cars, you never know til you check), I turned the stereo on and turned the volume up a bit. I had the doors closed and the windows up, but apparently, that didn't matter.

A neighbor decided it'd be a good idea to come and give me shit about the fact that my radio was too loud for that time of night. Now, I was only out there for maybe three minutes, and I was just wrapping up anyway, so I turned off the stereo and locked up the car. Bear in mind, I was still OC at the time. This person, who's identity I will figure out when I get a copy of the police report, started getting extremely rude and belligerent. He started threatening me, mostly with body language, but what he was saying didn't make a whole lot of sense, because I am pretty sure he was wasted. It was only the second period anyway so it wasn't that late, only like 8 or so.

Anyway, he starts pushing me against the side of the car. I told him that if he wants to get physical, I will defend myself, so he pushes me again. I push him back and tell him to step the hell off. He puts his arm across my chest and pins me against the car.

At this point, I am starting to feel like this guy is probably capable of escalating this violence much more, so I put my strong hand on my weapon. Now, this was not in an attempt to draw - I was making sure that, because this guy seems unstable, he's not going to have any chance of getting my weapon away from me. I put plenty of pressure on it and locked my arm in place - and I was right. He reached for it and started trying to pry my hand off of the weapon.

I told him he seriously needed to think about what he was doing, and I said it loudly. Next thing I know, his girlfriend (I'm assuming) comes out into the street and screams, "Leave him alone, he's got a fucking gun!!!"

I thought, "Great, a girl screaming in the street of a relatively quiet town about a man with a gun. Fan-fucking-tastic."

After a few more threatening remarks, he finally steps off and storms back into his apartment. Because I knew I had enough to drink that night to be inebriated, I made sure to keep my comments limited and un-antagonistic. He disappeared and I went back into my apartment.

Several minutes later, I was getting back into the Flyers game when I hear what I realized was a police officer right outside my front porch saying, "I have a visual on the subject!" Then there's a knock on my door. Great. I get up and I make sure to carefuly put my left hand (my strong side) on the doorjam as I open the door.

One LEO shoves the door open violently as another grabs me by the arm and YANKS me out into the hallway between the apartment units, slams me against the wall, and two other officers restrain my arms. They strip the gun off of me and the extra mags of ammo (just in case I decided to throw bullets at them by hand, I guess) and shove me back into my apartment, telling me to sit on my couch.

On an unrelated note, while they were talking with me, one officer did a walk through of my apartment - and he got a real good look at all the bondage furniture I have in the spare bedroom. That thought occurred to me earlier today, and I burst into laughter.

They ask me a bunch of questions, I explain to them what happened, and they say, "We got a phone call from a girl saying there was someone outside screaming at her boyfriend and waving a gun around. All I have to ask you is, did you ever pull your gun out?"

"Absolutely not." (Which is the truth.)

"Okay, well that's not what she said. In the future, I suggest you don't carry your gun when you've been drinking." Which has nothing to do with the problem here.

Another officer comes back into the apartment

Now, as I said, I was more than a few beers in, so I had no intention of pursuing this any further until I was more sober. However, I do plan on filing for a copy of the police report on Monday.

What would you guys say is an appropriate course of action for me? I'm considering pressing charges against the assailant. I don't think the police did anything particularly illegal, although I do feel as though the force they used was a bit unneccessary. "Sir, keep your hands where I can see them and step out of your apartment" wouldn't have been so hard.

[thebearpack]

Seems like you could ** wait... "bondage furniture"? ** Okay, never mind.

Seems like you could try to press charges but if there were no witnesses other than the guy and his girlfriend I don't see that going anywhere. They'll both stick to their side of the story which will naturally be different than yours.

In my younger days I lived in a pretty bad area and had a lot of problems with one neighbor over & over. The police did nothing no matter how many times they were called because I couldn't prove anything. Without a lot of witnesses or video or something it's probably a lost cause.

And you'll likely have even less luck filing a complaint about the way the police acted but if it were me, that's where I'd start. Filing a complaint with them about the way you were treated might not help but it's something.

[unclejumbo]

This goes to something I have said in the past. Call the police if someone initiates a physical encounter. The police would have had at least a cursory explanation of the encounter from your perspective before they arrived. We all know that there are two sides but if we only get a call from one side then the report they make is the only thing we have to go on initially.

[MDJschool]

This cries for a 1983 lawsuit. Criminal charges should also be pursued. Those acts by officers are unacceptable no matter how much bondage, and are ILLEGAL. I just found the following in searching cases for another post, but what it says is WARRANTS ARE REQUIRED FOR ARRESTS AND SEARCHES/SEIZURES IN THE HOME WITHOUT EXIGENCY! Don't be just another guy that gets fucked by the police. It was bad for you because the guy before you didn't act, and it'll be worse for the next guy if you do nothing.

Held: The Fourth Amendment, made applicable to the States by the Fourteenth Amendment, prohibits the police from making a warrantless and nonconsensual entry into a suspect's home in order to make a routine felony arrest. Pp. 583-603. (a) The physical entry of the home is the chief evil against which the wording of the Fourth Amendment is directed. To be arrested in the home involves not only the invasion attendant to all arrests, but also an invasion of the sanctity of the home, which is too substantial an invasion to allow without a warrant, in the absence of exigent circumstances, even when it is accomplished under statutory authority and when probable cause is present. In terms that apply equally to seizures of property and to seizures of persons, the Fourth Amendment has drawn a firm line at the entrance to the house. Absent exigent circumstances, that threshold may not reasonably be crossed without a warrant. Pp. 583-590."
From a PAYTON v. NEW YORK, 445 U.S. 573 (1980) syllabus, http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bi...=445&invol=573

ALSO.
WRITE DOWN EVERYTHING YOU REMEMBER ASAP. Put it in priority of most anything, because the longer the wait, the more you forget. Cases can and do go on for years and you will be drained of key elements of your memory.

[pirateron]

This cries for a 1983 lawsuit. Criminal charges should also be pursued. Those acts by officers are unacceptable no matter how much bondage, and are ILLEGAL. I just found the following in searching cases for another post, but what it says is WARRANTS ARE REQUIRED FOR ARRESTS AND SEARCHES/SEIZURES IN THE HOME WITHOUT EXIGENCY! Don't be just another guy that gets fucked by the police. It was bad for you because the guy before you didn't act, and it'll be worse for the next guy if you do nothing.

Held: The Fourth Amendment, made applicable to the States by the Fourteenth Amendment, prohibits the police from making a warrantless and nonconsensual entry into a suspect's home in order to make a routine felony arrest. Pp. 583-603. (a) The physical entry of the home is the chief evil against which the wording of the Fourth Amendment is directed. To be arrested in the home involves not only the invasion attendant to all arrests, but also an invasion of the sanctity of the home, which is too substantial an invasion to allow without a warrant, in the absence of exigent circumstances, even when it is accomplished under statutory authority and when probable cause is present. In terms that apply equally to seizures of property and to seizures of persons, the Fourth Amendment has drawn a firm line at the entrance to the house. Absent exigent circumstances, that threshold may not reasonably be crossed without a warrant. Pp. 583-590."
From a PAYTON v. NEW YORK, 445 U.S. 573 (1980) syllabus, http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bi...=445&invol=573

ALSO.
WRITE DOWN EVERYTHING YOU REMEMBER ASAP. Put it in priority of most anything, because the longer the wait, the more you forget. Cases can and do go on for years and you will be drained of key elements of your memory.

My understanding as well. The 4th amendment should (in theory) protect you from such a thing (other than the fact that you opened the door).

May-haps, (hindsight being 20/20) twold have been best to ask "May I help you?" through the door, but as I said, hindsight... and all.