Old .38/.357 "custom self defense" ammo

**Feddog82** · April 15th, 2009, 05:47 PM

I bought a boxed lot of ammo from an aquaintance today, mostly shotgun and 22 ammo, and these interesting cartridges were at the bottom of the box. Can anyone remember seeing these in a store, I am assuming, years ago? Just trying to find out appox how old tey are and if anyone has fired a round like this through their handgun. I personally have never seen a round like this. I guess there are 4 lead "wafers" stacked on top of one another in the brass case. Kind of like a .38 caliber buckshot round. If you happen to have any info please pass it along. I'm just intrigued.

Thanks

There are pics at this link.
http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m...view=slideshow

**Flash** · April 15th, 2009, 11:59 PM

WW cases headstamp = they are reloads, but with somebody's proprietary design lead stack-up load. All four discs are dimpled, aren't they.

In the late 60's, early 70's there were a lot of different loads for personal defense from a wide variety of sources. One of the more popular was a 148gr hollow-base wadcutter, turned around, to resemble a humongous hollow point, and they were loaded with a whopping charge of Bullseye or Red Dot. Then there was also one with a good slug of Bullseye or Red Dot under three 35-caliber black powder round balls and crimped on the first ball. Then, somebody got the idea of flattening the round balls so they could get four in the case instead of three, and somebody else dimpled the now-clyndircal projectiles, and that is what you seem to have. Lots of people were making and loading that kind of thing.

Those odd-shaped projectiles were considered "better" for that sort of personal protection as they were not aerodynamically sound and would tumble, thus would lose velocity rather quickly, and would penetrate sheetrock less than round ball, thereby becoming more desirable for social purpose loads. At belly-gun distances, the loads were considered quite effective, but the modern designs of hollow points, (Hydra Shok, Gold Dot, Talon, Sabre, etc . . ) have far surpassed the old makeshift loads.

I don't recognize the box or "manufacturer", but there were a lot of people loading stuff like that for sale, before the BATF got nit-picky about manufacturers' licenses for relaoders.

They are an interesting development in the social purpose loads, a few steps above a 158gr LRN of the standard police load of 1960, and on the way toward what we now take for granted in " +P Personal Protection" loads.

Just a historical artifact.

Flash

**Mr_Tom** · April 16th, 2009, 02:22 AM

Remember an old gun magazine article about the effectiveness of a snub nose 38 spl. It was from the early 80's. They called the ammo 'scatter'? It was several disks (looked like small lead frisbees) stacked, and the appearance before firing was a wad cutter. If they still make this stuff, I might interested.

tom