Philly prepares to enforce lost gun law

[reels18]

By Jeff Shields, Inquirer Staff Writer

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/24167474.html



Mayor Nutter and City Council are to announce today that police are poised to begin enforcing a new and fiercely disputed law that requires gun owners to report within 24 hours firearms that are lost or stolen.

Enforcement would actually begin in 30 days. Nutter is expected to set out during a news conference today a monthlong grace period in which owners of lost and stolen guns could come forward beyond the 24-hour limit that a new City Council ordinance requires, according to the mayor's office.

That ordinance was one of five signed by Nutter in April. In addition to establishing criminal penalties for those who fail to contact police within 24 hours of discovering their firearms missing, the laws also establish definitions and penalties for assault weapons, limit handgun purchases to one a month, and restrict gun ownership from unstable individuals or those subject to an order of protection.

All five laws were challenged in state court by the National Rifle Association, local gun owners, and firearms dealers.

Common Pleas Court Judge Jane Cutler Greenspan struck down the assault-weapon ban and one-gun-a-month limit as contrary to state law. But she ruled that the NRA and other plaintiffs could not challenge the other three laws because they had no standing to sue.

Both sides are appealing, and the case is headed to Commonwealth Court.

C. Scott Shields, representing the NRA and other plaintiffs, said he would seek an immediate injunction if city began to enforce the law.

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court is expected to have the final say on the legality of the city's ordinances. While the U.S. Supreme Court this month struck down a District of Columbia ban on handguns, Nutter and others noted that the court left some room in its opinion for local regulation of firearms.

The city is not yet ready to enforce the other two laws, which restrict gun ownership from those accused of domestic abuse, or individuals deemed a risk to themselves or others, said Nutter's spokesman, Doug Oliver. Those laws require regulations that are still being worked on, Oliver said.

[Dredly]

thats gonna be an intresting trial

can one of the mods updated the spelling in the header (questionaly)?

[unloved]

Nutter and others noted that the court left some room in its opinion for local regulation of firearms.

What about the UFA and the Pennsylvania Constitution? Can Nutter read?

[noofus]

[QUOTE=unloved;355640]

Nutter and others noted that the court left some room in its opinion for local regulation of firearms.QUOTE]

What about the UFA and the Pennsylvania Constitution? Can Nutter read?

Remember how this all works.

Legislature (or City Council) passes a law. Executive (Governer or Mayor) enforces law. Person law is enforced against goes to trial, if fail then appeal to a higher court. Court says law is or is not unconstitutional, perhaps then goes to a higher court, etc.

So yes, if this ends up in any court it will get tossed, but it will have to end up there first.

[Garpman]

I would report stolen guns as soon as I found out anyway, so what's the penalty for not obeying this law? 24 hrs is a bit out of hand, people go away on business trips, vacations, etc. that can last for weeks.

Responsible gun owners don't "lose" guns, they need to get rid of that part. It is either stolen, or a deliberate straw purchase.

[Brown-Bear]

I would report stolen guns as soon as I found out anyway, so what's the penalty for not obeying this law? 24 hrs is a bit out of hand, people go away on business trips, vacations, etc. that can last for weeks.

Responsible gun owners don't "lose" guns, they need to get rid of that part. It is either stolen, or a deliberate straw purchase.

The 24hr rule applies to reporting it missing within 24hrs of when you noticed it gone, not within 24hrs of the theft. My question is how are they gonna enforce this "Grandfather" clause. Are they gonna look up in the illegal database and then go around inspecting everyones guns and any they find missing are going to be prosecuted????

This is crap. Nutter either cannot read, or just does not care what hte constitution says about these matters.

Dave

[tmg19103]

Penalty - $1,900 for first offense. Can you say back-door tax?

Second offense is $1,900 fine and 90 days in jail. Local news did not say was was after that, but I would guess more jail time.

This is just criminal.

[Philadelphia]

[QUOTE=noofus;355756]

Remember how this all works.

Legislature (or City Council) passes a law. Executive (Governer or Mayor) enforces law. Person law is enforced against goes to trial, if fail then appeal to a higher court. Court says law is or is not unconstitutional, perhaps then goes to a higher court, etc.

So yes, if this ends up in any court it will get tossed, but it will have to end up there first.

Don't forget the good part. The DA has already said her office will not enforce these unconstitutionals laws. So nobody can actually get 90 days in jail, no matter what. The police can't just throw you in jail if the DA won't press any charges and if the reason for the arrest was a clearly unconstitutional act, you get to sue for official oppression for the illegal arrest as the cherry on top. I think you'd win that one too. The whole thing is completely stupid.

http://www.kyw1060.com/City-s-New-Gu...la--DA/2006537

The city can try to fine you through its dept. of finance, but as you've said, you'd first appeal the fine to municipal court, where you'd lose (you can't really make "legal" arguments in muni court and a full on constitutional argument would likely not even be fully understood by the judge there). From there, on to Common Pleas court where win or lose it would all likely get appealed possibly all the way up to the PA Supreme Court. And Nutter would lose, just like the DA already told him.

A total waste of time and money. Money that could have been spent on police, or for more DAs or more prison beds or . . . at least something worthwhile for the city. Instead, at least a few lawyers would end up having a pretty good year.

[PropCop]

[QUOTE=Philadelphia;356086]

Don't forget the good part. The DA has already said her office will not enforce these unconstitutionals laws. So nobody can actually get 90 days in jail, no matter what. The police can't just throw you in jail if the DA won't press any charges and if the reason for the arrest was a clearly unconstitutional act, you get to sue for official oppression for the illegal arrest as the cherry on top. I think you'd win that one too. The whole thing is completely stupid.

http://www.kyw1060.com/City-s-New-Gu...la--DA/2006537

The city can try to fine you through its dept. of finance, but as you've said, you'd first appeal the fine to municipal court, where you'd lose (you can't really make "legal" arguments in muni court and a full on constitutional argument would likely not even be fully understood by the judge there). From there, on to Common Pleas court where win or lose it would all likely get appealed possibly all the way up to the PA Supreme Court. And Nutter would lose, just like the DA already told him.

A total waste of time and money. Money that could have been spent on police, or for more DAs or more prison beds or . . . at least something worthwhile for the city. Instead, at least a few lawyers would end up having a pretty good year.

Sarcasm to follow:

The phone lines have been inundated with all the "family and friends" calling to report the missing and stolen firearms.

The gun buybacks have gotten all the "dangerous" guns off the street. They may be a POS, but by god, they were turned in. The gangbangers turned them in for 1/3rd of what they were worth just to be a good citizen.

You have an amesty, but, if your gun kills someone, we may have a few additional questions for you just to "clarify" the situation.

Just because we ignore state law, doesn't mean we won't respect your rights.

Commissioner Ramsey comes from DC. Of course he respects your constitional rights. He and Mayor Nutter want you to be safe in the city. If you call 911 you are guaranteed the the police will be there to collect the evidence. Maybe your killer will be prosecuted, maybe not.

Ramsey does not believe you should have a CC license, by his own words. But since Phlily ALWAYS follows state law, this shoud not be a concern to the residents.

Did I say this was all sarcasm? I hope so, because I would'nt want to be accused of picking on the shining star we call Philadelphia, where laws can be written when the PA constitutionsays otherwise.

[Poonie]

Lose yo Piece, call the po-leece!

Can't find yo gun, call 911!!!!!

That idiot had to resort to ebonics to get his point across the other night. Glad I don't live in that rat's nest of a city!!!