Well……Wall Street isn’t caught up in all the Obama hype!

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

The DOW’s down 336 points so far today.

The way today has been hyped up – you’d think otherwise!


-

[SFMarine]

Good point. Remember November 5th? The day after Obama became President Elect. The DOW dropped 500pts.

[jmanzini]

I guess they don't like his idea of "change". Oh well, just 4 more years if we are lucky.

[87th PVI]

I guess they don't like his idea of "change". Oh well, just 4 more years if we are lucky.

Remember... FDR was supposed to be the answer to the great depression. His pre 1941 actions made people feel like he was doing something but in actuality they had no real lasting economic effect. The only thing that got us out of that financial disaster was the Japanese giving FDR an excuse to enter WWII, and the citizens staying behind the cause.

What is that old saying? Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... or something like that.

If the majority of citizens would show more patriotism and support for fighting the wars we are currently in (as their grandparents/great grandparents did in WWII) we could be increasing production of the tools of war, thereby boosting the economy with jobs and ending the conflicts faster and bringing the forces home sooner too. (well, ok then there would be no more increased production and more people here at home needing jobs, but hey I don't have all the answers! Stop sending clothing mills, telemarketer jobs, call centers, etc overseas for a start!)


During the election, I saw one of the "experts" interviewed on Fox News state that historically, the economy always takes an upturn immediately after a presidential election, however those upturns tend to swing higher and last longer when a Republican is elected.
So I guess that "Always" part can be tossed out as of today!

[dc dalton]

Hate to tell you this but nothing is stopping this Wall street mess right now, not with the earnings that are coming out of the banks right now (the major drop today)

Stop trying to look for a scapegoat for Wall Street .. this mess is almost unstoppable.

For those of you that don't follow the market and the economy in general let me give you a small inside glance.

1. There are STILL around 500 TRILLION of credit default swaps that have yet been 'unwound' (derivatives) These things are so toxic it's not funny and just about every bank and brokerage has a HUGE chunk of them on their books.

2. Just about every bank and brokerage also has 'paper' that can't be valuated right now. The 'mark to market' laws aren't even working to value these assets. These assets haven't been sold or traded in so long literally NO ONE knows what the hell they are worth and since no one is really buying these kind of assets there's no way to find out.

3. Credit card debt and car loans are now going bad as fast as mortgages, it was bound to be the next wave and it is hitting hard.

4. Most banks have tightened their lending standards so tight they are barely loaning any money out at all. No loans no profits, it's a simple as that. The banking industry makes a good bulk of their profits from loan interests. Now granted the standards HAD to be tightened but (as usual) they have gone from 'loosey goosey' lending to the strictest of standards where even those with good credit can't get a loan (you have to be AAA+)

5. Retail sales as well as wholesale have dropped through the floor... again no sales no profits.

6. Manufacturing has just about come to stand still .. don't believe me? Check the Baltic Dry Index... there are empty container and dry good ships sitting all over the planet just rusting.

So let's not start with the "they don't like him BULLSHIT" .. THEY (unlike most) know we are in DEEP DEEP SHIT and things are getting uglier by the day so stop trying to make a man that has yet to do ONE official thing the scapegoat ... this mess was started a LONG time ago, even before he even thought of running for president.

[Philbert]

We'll see how the stock market does over the course of his term. Historically the markets have done better with Democratic presidents than Republicans.

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

Hate to tell you this but nothing is stopping this Wall street mess right now.......

Stop trying to look for a scapegoat for Wall Street .. this mess is almost unstoppable.


So let's not start with the "they don't like him BULLSHIT" .. THEY (unlike most) know we are in DEEP DEEP SHIT and things are getting uglier by the day so stop trying to make a man that has yet to do ONE official thing the scapegoat ... this mess was started a LONG time ago, even before he even thought of running for president.

Hold on there Jimmy Cramer!


I'm with you - you make some GREAT points!
What I was trying to point out is how crazy the market reacts to nonsensical issues.


An Oil Arab farts wrong and stocks sink.
Ben Bernanke is seen carrying an unusually overstuffed briefcase - stocks tumble.
Blue Chippers earn a point or two above market expectations??? The economy is saved and stocks SOAR!


This pic REALLY demonstrates that (particularly the TOP half):

Did we REALLY have events that warranted so many vast swings? It's Market Nervousness.

(That BDI is very worrisome though!)

[dc dalton]

Hold on there Jimmy Cramer!


I'm with you - you make some GREAT points!
What I was trying to point out is how crazy the market reacts to nonsensical issues.


An Oil Arab farts wrong and stocks sink.
Ben Bernanke is seen carrying an unusually overstuffed briefcase - stocks tumble.
Blue Chippers earn a point or two above market expectations??? The economy is saved and stocks SOAR!


This pic REALLY demonstrates that (particularly the TOP half):

Did we REALLY have events that warranted so many vast swings? It's Market Nervousness.

(That BDI is very worrisome though!)

I repped you for actually knowing what you are talking about!

BUT

First off I HATE Cramer! That man is nothing more than the 'chief propaganda officer' for Wall Street .. what a tool!

Yes the market is reactionary and the underlying reason is they KNOW it's no where near as bad as it could be and one slip and we are FUCKED ... and I do mean a full scale depression. One that will make 1929 look like a fart in the wind.

To be honest (and I just got done telling a friend this) I am looking at low 7s for the DOW real soon and a 'bottom' on the 5's ..... this mess isn't even half way over.

I wish, I REALLY wish I hadn't gotten so interested in economics 1.5 years ago. I WISH I could be one of these people that 'whistle through life' and really don't know or care .. but alas it wasn't meant to be.

We are (and have been) so close to the edge of a complete financial collapse for almost 7 months now and as long as we have Keynsians running our economic policies we are in trouble. They wont admit the one simple fact we need to let the problems happen, banks fail and businesses go under and then start over ... NOOOOO they have to make it a long painful collapse that will suck the life out of this country and our tax dollars trying to put 'band aids on a severe head wound'

And one more time for those that didn't hear .. stop fucking blaming Obama! This mess started a LONG time ago .. it ain't his fault and if he can fix it (highly doubtful) he is a miracle worker .. the worst is yet to come.

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

First off I HATE Cramer! That man is nothing more than the 'chief propaganda officer' for Wall Street

I agree - Day traders by the THOUSANDS sit trembling on the edge of their seat and watch his show. Waiting for him to just BREATHE! He says 'BUY!' and folks who have never even HEARD of a company will lob thousands at it. Cramer says 'SELL' and the sheep DUMP it like nobody's business. That guy probably gets hundreds of calls a WEEK from companies just WISHING that Cramer would utter their name on the show. HE is a dangerous market manipulator.
But the pic was cool for my purpose! <grin!>

To be honest (and I just got done telling a friend this) I am looking at low 7s for the DOW real soon and a 'bottom' on the 5's ..... this mess isn't even half way over.

Allow me to be a little selfish here - but I don't have vast amounts of liquid cash laying around. I invest steady-eddie in a good blue chip fund (Tax deferred growth is the way to go for me) and quite frankly......Let that effen DOW stay down! I'm still young and in a pretty safe/steady job. The longer it says low (or lower), I buy more shares for my money per month.

I have confidence (fingers crossed) that the market will eventually come back as it always does (may take years though) and then I can enjoy watching the value of my "low-Dow-bought" shares fatten!
But that's selfish. These are tough times for folks considering retirement or for much older retirees whose annuity value is their lifeblood for sustenance.

Remember folks/daytraders.......Here's the key - "Its not TIMING the market that matters.....it's time IN the market that matters."

Daytrading and excessive risk taking (which COULD pay off big - or LOOSE big) should only be left to those who actually have excess liquid cash available.)


-

[bogey1]

this is probably the best damn thread I've read in awhile. very interesting, keep it going.