21 year old Sovereign Citizen killed by police

**Krichardson** · March 11th, 2023, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by ROCK-IT3

I'm not sure how exactly he saw that game playing out, but reaching for your gun when you are in a parked vehicle surrounded by armed men is a distinctly stupid idea.

That fool really believed in his bullshit and it brought him to his end.

**ROCK-IT3** · March 11th, 2023, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

The "sovereign citizens" are known for having the dumbest philosophy that isn't part of Women's Studies or Afro-Centric Studies programs. The notion that they don't need a license to drive on roads unless they're engaged in commerce, has no basis in the Constitution or statutes or common sense.

I've heard they'll prey on anyone, pulling scams and counterfeiting court documents and stealing homes through deed fraud. i think they're the ones who believe that every person is entitled to draw on some fantasy bank account or something, so they write bad checks and scam normal people.

I agree that the citizens of the USA are COLLECTIVELY the people in charge, through elections, but that doesn't translate into "every one of them is a king who may not be touched or held to account for his deeds".

Still, I can see that it might attract some of the poorly-educated who are sick of the Democrats believing themselves entitled to regulate anything as long as they can put it in the form of a statute.

Yes. Even if the Sovereign Citizen thing holds any merit, a Sovereign Citizen should understand when he leaves his kingdom (the property he owns) and travels to another sovereign state (the U.S.), he is bound by the laws of that sovereign entity, just as if a U.S. citizen would, oh I don't know, say, carry illegal drugs from the U.S. to Russia.

**ROCK-IT3** · March 11th, 2023, 11:49 PM

I am surprised. Thread has been posted for 6 hours, and still no comment from the Brazil nut gallery.

**Noah_Zark** · March 12th, 2023, 12:07 AM

I was assisting an FFL friend at a gun show last year and a family of three were looking at our handguns for sale. The >21 yr old son picked one out and started filling a 4473. He filled in the fields, answered the questions and signed. He's about 2/3 thru the questions and Dad starts on about "We're sovereign citizens" and how .gov laws don't apply.

I review the form before the son starts on an SP4-113, and see that he checked the "Yes" box for "Have you renounced your citizenship?". I tell him he can't buy the gun. Dad starts in, "Now see here, what did I just tell you? Laws don't apply to us." He pulls out a sheet of paper, saying, "Read this, it explains everything." I hand it back without a glance, tell him "Read this (4473 instructions regarding renouncing citizenship), it explains why your son is prohibited. You are on US soil right now, and ARE governed by US and Commonwealth law. He answered "yes" to the renounced citizenship question; he's prohibited.

Dad starts getting belligerent; my FFL friend tells them to GTFO. They leave, promising to motherfuck the FFL's business. "We'll make you famous!" Later, my FFL friend is walking around and sees the kid filling out a 4473. He watches, and the same drama unfolds because the son checked the box, all the time Dad is on about them being sovereigns, renounced US citizenship, laws don't apply, etc. That dealer shuts down the sale. The family leaves, promising to make that FFL famous, too. My friend told that FFL about our experience earlier, and that FFL said he was going to call the PICS main line and give them the son's DL number telling PICS that the son is no longer a US citizen.

Play stupid games . . .

Noah

**Krichardson** · March 12th, 2023, 12:13 AM

The nerve of some people for thinking that others will go along with the nonsense that they pull out of their asses!

**ROCK-IT3** · March 12th, 2023, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Noah_Zark

I was assisting an FFL friend at a gun show last year and a family of three were looking at our handguns for sale. The >21 yr old son picked one out and started filling a 4473. He filled in the fields, answered the questions and signed. He's about 2/3 thru the questions and Dad starts on about "We're sovereign citizens" and how .gov laws don't apply.

I review the form before the son starts on an SP4-113, and see that he checked the "Yes" box for "Have you renounced your citizenship?". I tell him he can't buy the gun. Dad starts in, "Now see here, what did I just tell you? Laws don't apply to us." He pulls out a sheet of paper, saying, "Read this, it explains everything." I hand it back without a glance, tell him "Read this (4473 instructions regarding renouncing citizenship), it explains why your son is prohibited. You are on US soil right now, and ARE governed by US and Commonwealth law. He answered "yes" to the renounced citizenship question; he's prohibited.

Dad starts getting belligerent; my FFL friend tells them to GTFO. They leave, promising to motherfuck the FFL's business. "We'll make you famous!" Later, my FFL friend is walking around and sees the kid filling out a 4473. He watches, and the same drama unfolds because the son checked the box, all the time Dad is on about them being sovereigns, renounced US citizenship, laws don't apply, etc. That dealer shuts down the sale. The family leaves, promising to make that FFL famous, too. My friend told that FFL about our experience earlier, and that FFL said he was going to call the PICS main line and give them the son's DL number telling PICS that the son is no longer a US citizen.

Play stupid games . . .

Noah

Didja both become famous??

Also, people who say they are going to motherf*ck you into next week are usually too impressed with their own importance.

**ROCK-IT3** · March 12th, 2023, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Krichardson

The nerve of some people for thinking that others will go along with the nonsense that they pull out of their asses!

That's government policy these days, so...

**Krichardson** · March 12th, 2023, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by ROCK-IT3

That's government policy these days, so...

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**Spaceballs** · March 12th, 2023, 03:38 AM

Even if the Sovereign Citizen thing had any legal merit, this guy was being told what to do (get out of the car) by a guy with gun.

Pretty sure that language is universal.

Just do it. Argue your sovereignty in court later.

**Daycrawler** · March 12th, 2023, 04:06 AM

From what I could tell it appeared to be an ok shoot. I never saw his gun but that's the way it goes. His imaginary sovereignty shield wasn't bullet proof. Too bad soo sad.

Originally Posted by Spaceballs

Even if the Sovereign Citizen thing had any legal merit, this guy was being told what to do (get out of the car) by a guy with gun.

Pretty sure that language is universal.

Just do it. Argue your sovereignty in court later.

Let me tell you that when you point a gun at a person, the language is very clear. Even if English is not the first language of the day. A gun barrel is a universal interpreter.