Weapons for Cops Giveaway

[frankski]

I haven't seen this posted here, but it is timely and topical.

Here's an article about the details of the Pentagon's program to give military weapons to local PDs.

https://www.muckrock.com/news/archiv...cops-giveaway/

If you scroll down to the bottom of the page, you can see the details by state and locality.

Some details in PA:

BUCKS COUNTY S. CENTRAL ERT
CARRIER,PERSONNEL,FULL TRACKED 2 $489,688.00

NEW BRITAIN TOWNSHIP POLICE DEPT
MINE RESISTANT VEHICLE 1 $689,000.00

This is really some stupid shit. Stop playing GI Joe and get back to being a part of the community, not paramilitary enforcers of state tax laws.

Pattern yourselves on Mayberry RFD, not NYPD.

[Sam1911]

Hmmm... the closest local department to me that picked up any goodies got 16 magazines.

West Shore Regional's take included stuff like coveralls, a dehumidifier, a filing cabinet, and a coffee maker. Mmmmm.... ok.

And I see that York police department got FIVE 7.62mm rifles... valued at a total of $690.00! Yikes!

[bogey1]

Nice. Stock up boys.

[jw34]

This is really some stupid shit. Stop playing GI Joe and get back to being a part of the community, not paramilitary enforcers of state tax laws.

Pattern yourselves on Mayberry RFD, not NYPD.

That might be a good idea if the rest of the community patterned themselves on the same time period. However, with the glorified thug mentality of the modern era, I wouldnt want the cops to be using just wheel guns and a gentle smile when they go up against the gang bangers with AKs all them sideways nines.

I can think of no better example of local PD being outgunned and ill-equipped than the North Hollywood Shootout. A little research will show that this incident was the turning point in police depts realizing they needed to be prepared for almost anything. But that doesn't mean that the new equipment gets used every day.
Almost every patrol officer has an AR in the car with them now. But I can count on one hand how many times I've felt the need to deploy it since they were issued.
Much like my EDC, I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
And those SWAT teams with the MRAPs..... Good for them, I'd love to have a mode of transportation that stops bullets when I'm approaching an active shooter barricaded in a house.

When you're the one that has to face these dangers, you might have a different opinion.
I didn't sign up for this job to voluntarily take bullets when protection is available.

Hey, back in Mayberry times the cops didn't wear any body armor.....do you think that's still a good idea?

[Bang]

Screw these know-it-alls that will never put themselves in harm's way. The tripe they say is just that. Tripe.

[frankski]

Screw these know-it-alls that will never put themselves in harm's way. The tripe they say is just that. Tripe.

Yeah! I'm feeling in harms way right about now. Newtown Township now has the big guns -

CARRIER,107 MILLIMETER MORTAR 1 $205,400.00

And I have an overdue library book! Hope they go first for the guy that didn't pick up his dog poo.

When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you have these toys, you end up looking for an excuse to use them.

[frankski]

That might be a good idea if the rest of the community patterned themselves on the same time period. However, with the glorified thug mentality of the modern era, I wouldnt want the cops to be using just wheel guns and a gentle smile when they go up against the gang bangers with AKs all them sideways nines.

I can think of no better example of local PD being outgunned and ill-equipped than the North Hollywood Shootout. A little research will show that this incident was the turning point in police depts realizing they needed to be prepared for almost anything. But that doesn't mean that the new equipment gets used every day.
Almost every patrol officer has an AR in the car with them now. But I can count on one hand how many times I've felt the need to deploy it since they were issued.
Much like my EDC, I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
And those SWAT teams with the MRAPs..... Good for them, I'd love to have a mode of transportation that stops bullets when I'm approaching an active shooter barricaded in a house.

When you're the one that has to face these dangers, you might have a different opinion.
I didn't sign up for this job to voluntarily take bullets when protection is available.

Hey, back in Mayberry times the cops didn't wear any body armor.....do you think that's still a good idea?

Nobody (at least not me) is talking about going back to revolvers and skipping the body armor. That's a false narrative and a waste of serious people's time.

The issue is the use of military hardware in suburban police departments. And why.

In my area, the dangerous criminals might be ladies pushing to get to the front of the line at tea-time at one of Historic Newtown's Bed & Breakfasts. Or maybe college kids with a joint in the car. So, no, I don't understand why the local po-po need or want a CARRIER,107 MILLIMETER MORTAR 1 $205,400.00.

But you indicate you work in a more dangerous environment (thank you for your service). What does the heavy equipment get used for? You mention SWAT teams - in your department? Do they use MRAPs? For what - taking down heavily-armed gangbangers barricaded in a hardened site? Or serving warrants for non-violent crimes? It is the latter we hear about and question the rationale for.

This is something citizens want to understand better.

[MT1]

Yeah! I'm feeling in harms way right about now. Newtown Township now has the big guns -

CARRIER,107 MILLIMETER MORTAR 1 $205,400.00

And I have an overdue library book! Hope they go first for the guy that didn't pick up his dog poo.

When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you have these toys, you end up looking for an excuse to use them.

This isn't an actual mortar. CARRIER,107 MILLIMETER MORTAR is a lightly armored, amphibious, tracked carrier designed to transport the M2 4.2 inch (107mm) mortar and crew.

Basically it is a light skin armor vehicle. Buying a track vehicle is stupid on the part of a township. Once they realize how badly tracks tear up pavement they'll stop using it. Wheeled vehicles are much easier and cheaper to maintain, typically more maneuverable in the situations a PD is going to encounter, and they don't chew up the road.

[bdriller]

This isn't an actual mortar. CARRIER,107 MILLIMETER MORTAR is a lightly armored, amphibious, tracked carrier designed to transport the M2 4.2 inch (107mm) mortar and crew.

Basically it is a light skin armor vehicle. Buying a track vehicle is stupid on the part of a township. Once they realize how badly tracks tear up pavement they'll stop using it. Wheeled vehicles are much easier and cheaper to maintain, typically more maneuverable in the situations a PD is going to encounter, and they don't chew up the road.

The one I saw in Northampton Twp. Bucks Co. it had rubber track pads on it. I will bet the one Newtown got is the same way.

[jw34]

Nobody (at least not me) is talking about going back to revolvers and skipping the body armor. That's a false narrative and a waste of serious people's time.

The issue is the use of military hardware in suburban police departments. And why.

In my area, the dangerous criminals might be ladies pushing to get to the front of the line at tea-time at one of Historic Newtown's Bed & Breakfasts. Or maybe college kids with a joint in the car. So, no, I don't understand why the local po-po need or want a CARRIER,107 MILLIMETER MORTAR 1 $205,400.00.

But you indicate you work in a more dangerous environment (thank you for your service). What does the heavy equipment get used for? You mention SWAT teams - in your department? Do they use MRAPs? For what - taking down heavily-armed gangbangers barricaded in a hardened site? Or serving warrants for non-violent crimes? It is the latter we hear about and question the rationale for.

This is something citizens want to understand better.

My point of revolvers and body armor is that times change. Police are primarily reactive, there is little they can do to be proactive other than patrol and been seen. With the changing of times, we try to learn from our mistakes and improve the way we do things. All in the name of keeping people safe, even us.
Part of this evolution of keeping people alive, is understanding that skin does not do a good job of stopping bullets. Back in Mayberry times, if there was a drugged up armed guy holed up in his house threatening to kill his family, cops surrounded the place with revolvers and shotguns, taking cover behind their cars. Approaching the house is suicide, trying to cover the open ground without cover. Yet, if you don't get in there quick, the family might end up dead. So what's the better choice? Dead family, or dead me? There's no correct answer to that question.
North Hollywood had civilians and cops getting shot and being pinned down, unable to evac. LAPD managed to get the help of an armored truck to evac the wounded.
So where some people see the armored military vehicles as unnecessary, those of us who are forced to get into that house to try to save the family see that vehicle as a wonderful huge chunk of cover that will keep me protected until I get to that door.
Now, if we'd simply be allowed to blast away at the front of the house from 50yds out, and it would be acceptable to consider anyone killed inside in addition to the hostage taker as collateral damage, then I'd see no need for armored cover to the door. Obviously that's not acceptable. We need to identify the threat, and stop just that threat.

Our county team has a Bearcat armored vehicle. It's a wonderful thing to have the right tool for the job. And no, they don't roll up to shoplifting call in that thing. But I think our county team had the finances for that vehicle. If a department has a need for an armored vehicle to keep entry teams safe to the door, and they have budgetary limitations, then surplus military gear is a wise choice.

But our team is on-call regular duty guys from around the county, so they only get called out for the serious shit.