Why Conceal In National Parks

[clhaberle]

I have checked the text of the amendments 1067 and 1068. I can find nowhere why the carry would have to be concealed or even mention of the word concealed. It only refers to laws of the state the park is in. I assume the National parks would not be under the rule of state parks but should be governed by the state laws which do not prevent open carry. Can anyone shed more light on this?

[64Jeeper]

Valley Forge National Park Laws & Policies

Park Regulations

The possession or consumption of alcoholic beverages is prohibited.

The use of skates, skateboards, roller skis, in-line skates & similar devices is prohibited.

The use of bicycles on other that approved trails is prohibited. In general, all trails on Mt. Joy & Mt. Misery are closed, as well as fields.

Use of snowmobiles is prohibited.

Driving or parking outside of established roads & parking areas is prohibited.

Open flame fires are prohibited. All cooking fires are restricted to designated picnic areas & must be charcoal.

Gathering of flowers, nuts, fruits, for other than limited personal use is prohibited.

Gathering of plants, wood, pine cones, rocks, and artifacts; of any kind is prohibited.

Use of metal detectors or digging to retrieve any object is prohibited.

Climbing on earthworks, cabins, cannons, monuments or any other structures is prohibited.

Feeding of any wildlife is prohibited.

Harassing of wildlife by spotlighting is prohibited.

Having a pet unleashed is prohibited. You are required to clean up after your pet.

Launching of model rockets is prohibited.
If you have any questions please check with a park ranger or call 610-783-1050.


http://www.nps.gov/vafo/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm

That's all I found so far.

[knight0334]

You wont find it in statutes, it was a regulation, not a law.


http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...2004&TYPE=TEXT

TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY

CHAPTER I--NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

PART 2_RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION--Table of Contents

Sec. 2.4 Weapons, traps and nets.

(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7
(special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are
prohibited:
(i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net
(ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net
(iii) Using a weapon, trap or net
(2) Weapons, traps or nets may be carried, possessed or used:
(i) At designated times and locations in park areas where:
(A) The taking of wildlife is authorized by law in accordance with
Sec. 2.2 of this chapter;
(B) The taking of fish is authorized by law in accordance with Sec.
2.3 of this part.
(ii) When used for target practice at designated times and at
facilities or locations designed and constructed specifically for this
purpose and designated pursuant to special regulations.
(iii) Within a residential dwelling. For purposes of this
subparagraph only, the term ``residential dwelling'' means a fixed
housing structure which is either the principal residence of its
occupants, or is occupied on a regular and recurring basis by its
occupants as an alternate residence or vacation home.
(3) Traps, nets and unloaded weapons may be possessed within a
temporarylodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are
rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased or stored in a
manner that will prevent their ready use.
(b) Carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a motor vehicle,
vessel or other mode of transportation is prohibited, except that
carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a vessel is allowed when such
vessel is not being propelled by machinery and is used as a shooting
platform in accordance with Federal and State law.
(c) The use of a weapon, trap or net in a manner that endangers
persons or property is prohibited.
(d) The superintendent may issue a permit to carry or possess a
weapon, trap or net under the following circumstances:
(1) When necessary to support research activities conducted in
accordance with Sec. 2.5.
(2) To carry firearms for persons in charge of pack trains or saddle
horses for emergency use.
(3) For employees, agents or cooperating officials in the
performance of their official duties.
(4) To provide access to otherwise inaccessible lands or waters
contiguous to a park area when other means of access are otherwise
impracticable or impossible.

Violation of the terms and conditions of a permit issued pursuant to
this paragraph is prohibited and may result in the suspension or
revocation of the permit.
(e) Authorized Federal, State and local law enforcement officers may
carry firearms in the performance of their official duties.
(f) The carrying or possessing of a weapon, trap or net in violation
of applicable Federal and State laws is prohibited.
(g) The regulations contained in this section apply, regardless of
land ownership, on all lands and waters within a park area that are
under the legislative jurisdiction of the United States.

[shermdo]

I have checked the text of the amendments 1067 and 1068. I can find nowhere why the carry would have to be concealed or even mention of the word concealed. It only refers to laws of the state the park is in. I assume the National parks would not be under the rule of state parks but should be governed by the state laws which do not prevent open carry. Can anyone shed more light on this?

I AM NOT A LAWYER OR A MEMBER OF CONGRESS - but it was my understanding that the new law (yet to be signed actually) would extend state carry laws to the Federal Parks land in each state. I am assuming that means that once in effect the carry laws of the Commonwealth of PA would then apply to all Federal Parks in PA such as Valley Forge, Gettysburg, etc.

I am certainly pleased with this and hopeful that it might be a positive step in the right direction for us.

[tl_3237]

The Coburn Amendment (1067) simply says that the DOI has no authority to make or enforce regulations on the possession or carrying of firearms as follows:

The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--

(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and

(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

Once it becomes effective, if you are carrying any firearm (handgun, long-gun) in accordance with the laws of the state where the DOI park is located you would be immune to any DOI regulations to the contrary. Carry can be CC or OC as the state laws allow.

N.B. This amendments DOES NOT impact or change regulations of other Departments (EX: Corps of Engineers...) or Federal Statue (ex: 18 USC 930 regarding Federal facilities...). It only affects DOI regulations; all other regulations and Federal laws remain in full force and effect!

[GoldWinger]

N.B. This amendments DOES NOT impact or change regulations of other Departments (EX: Corps of Engineers...) or Federal Statue (ex: 18 USC 930 regarding Federal facilities...). It only affects DOI regulations; all other regulations and Federal laws remain in full force and effect!

One more hodge-podge of laws to deal with. At least it will make money for the sign makers because now there will have to be signs, "This is not a park, you may not carry a gun here."

Will this cover National Forests? They aren't part of the park system.

[tl_3237]

One more hodge-podge of laws to deal with. At least it will make money for the sign makers because now there will have to be signs, "This is not a park, you may not carry a gun here."

Will this cover National Forests? They aren't part of the park system.

The National Forests are managed through the Dept of Agriculture (US Forest Service) so DOI regulations are not applicable.

In a cursory search I couldn't find any Regulations restricting firearms in the National Forests.

[Swarner793]

In a strange twist, it seems OC may not be permitted in National Parks. If the law falls to being a mirror of the State in which the Park is in, could it not be argued that PA State Law says that the firearm must be concealed while in State Parks, therefore it must be concealed while in National Parks. Just playing devil's advocate here.

Be safe (and experience your history in a National Park).

Scott

[tl_3237]

In a strange twist, it seems OC may not be permitted in National Parks. If the law falls to being a mirror of the State in which the Park is in, could it not be argued that PA State Law says that the firearm must be concealed while in State Parks, therefore it must be concealed while in National Parks. Just playing devil's advocate here.

Be safe (and experience your history in a National Park).

Scott

No.

Mirroring state PARK rules was in an early proposal but was dropped from the final DOI rule change that is currently under injunction. The new regs only allow for CC.

The Coburn amendment mirrors state law - not state park law. In fact Coburn allows CC/OC and long gun carry as long as its legal under state law. Again only insofar as DOI regs are concerned. Other agency regs and Federal statutes remain in full force and effect.