accident on freysville rd...

[schmol]

there wasn't a member of PAFOA involved in a accident on freysville road last was there? I'm asking because while I was somewhat attending to the victim, I noticed what looked like a 1911 stuffed between the seats.

i didnt get his name as the ems crew whisked him off quickly, I inform the LEO that there was a loaded handgun between the seats so could secure the firearm before they towed the truck away. What kinda irked me was what the LEO said when I informed of the firearm, "I hope has a permit for that weapon", it's not that he said it, but in the tone that he said it.

[str8shooter]

there wasn't a member of PAFOA involved in a accident on freysville road last was there? I'm asking because while I was somewhat attending to the victim, I noticed what looked like a 1911 stuffed between the seats.

i didnt get his name as the ems crew whisked him off quickly, I inform the LEO that there was a loaded handgun between the seats so could secure the firearm before they towed the truck away. What kinda irked me was what the LEO said when I informed of the firearm, "I hope has a permit for that weapon", it's not that he said it, but in the tone that he said it.

No comment on the LEOs response, but kudos for pointing it out. I got dragged into an inquisition a few years back because a DOA MVA victim had a laptop in the car, and sometime between extricating the victim and the victims family claiming her property at the impound, it disappeared. I was gathering info about the damage to the vehicle for the report that was sent to the ER with a surviving passenger, and noticed a laptop case in the car. Fortunately, another EMT was with me and I said something to him about it, because the family knew the victim had it, and I was the last person anyone recalled being near the car as the scene was secured. After a short investigation, the laptop was recovered and an arrest was made (no firefighters or EMS personnel were involved), but had I mentioned it to the LEO on scene, I might have avoided some long conversations with several LE agencies in days that followed. The thing that kind of pissed me off (besides the unspoken accusation that I stole it) was that when I mention stuff like that to the responding LEOs, they always say the investigators will take care of it after they examine the accident scene and take pictures, so I got out of the habit of saying anything. Never again. If I see so much as a CD, I'm pointing it out.

[Sandcut]

Never again. If I see so much as a CD, I'm pointing it out.

Hey Str8shooter,

If you really want to CYA, don't just point it out. DOCUMENT that you pointed it out. May only be a pocket notebook that you keep in your shirt. You'd be surprised how far a date, time and one sentence will go to keep your bacon out of the fire. The one thing I took away from EMT class years ago that I use in my regular job is not to forget to document the pertinant negatives. Not just the things you did affirmatively, but the things that you might have needed to do and didn't. All the note taking seems painful until you feel the burn of not taking notes that were good enough.

[ImminentDanger]

You might want to buy one of those cheap voice recorders (mp3/fm/recorder) so you can quickly take inventory and then later write out what you put on the digital recorder.

... Stay Safe ...
ID

[fingers80002]

there wasn't a member of PAFOA involved in a accident on freysville road last was there? I'm asking because while I was somewhat attending to the victim, I noticed what looked like a 1911 stuffed between the seats.

i didnt get his name as the ems crew whisked him off quickly, I inform the LEO that there was a loaded handgun between the seats so could secure the firearm before they towed the truck away. What kinda irked me was what the LEO said when I informed of the firearm, "I hope has a permit for that weapon", it's not that he said it, but in the tone that he said it.

If it was a member, I hope they are OK!, any idea how badit was?

[str8shooter]

Hey Str8shooter,

If you really want to CYA, don't just point it out. DOCUMENT that you pointed it out. May only be a pocket notebook that you keep in your shirt. You'd be surprised how far a date, time and one sentence will go to keep your bacon out of the fire. The one thing I took away from EMT class years ago that I use in my regular job is not to forget to document the pertinant negatives. Not just the things you did affirmatively, but the things that you might have needed to do and didn't. All the note taking seems painful until you feel the burn of not taking notes that were good enough.

A great idea. I cut my teeth in VA, and the report that was turned in at the ER was final. When we got back to the station we dropped our copy in a locked box, and any changes to what was handed in at the ER had to be initialed by the crew chief within an hour of returning to station. We used VA Dept. of Health standard reports with blocks to fill in for pt. info and status updates, but a little block at the bottom for misc. information would have been the appropriate place to mention any non-patient related information exchange between EMS, LEOs and witnesses.

You might want to buy one of those cheap voice recorders (mp3/fm/recorder) so you can quickly take inventory and then later write out what you put on the digital recorder.

... Stay Safe ...
ID

In PA we're allowed to get back to the station house and fill in the report electronically so any afterthoughts can be added. A voice recorder would really help for that. Needless to say, things can be hectic on any scene, and having a recording to play back when filing in the official report would certainly help for those 3:00 a.m. calls when a lot can slip the mind when the rushing to get a report done and hoping to get some sleep before the next tone goes off.

Document Document Document has always been the second highest priority of any rescue, second only to ensuring your own safety comes first. Patients only get saved if your ass can stay safe in the process. Every incident is a learning experience, and that day I learned no matter how many times I'm told don't worry about it, and limit the report to patient condition and treatment only, if I ever have a concern about something I see, somebody's gonna hear about it and read about it, whether I'm wasting their time or not.

The real problem with a situation like the OP brought up is that the scene commander is responsible for everything, including making sure nothing is stolen. If the OP didn't mention the gun, and later on down the line the patient asked about it, it's the scene commander, typically a FD officer, and most likely a volunteer if it happened outside of a city who would have to answer for it. Amongst all the other high stress duties he has ensuring the safety of his crew, the EMTs, traffic, and even LEOs, It's also his job to make sure no one unauthorized people get near the patients or the vehicles in the case of an MVA.

In my situation, if the laptop hadn't been recovered, my Asst. chief would have taken the fall for not having performed his duties which probably would have ended his firefighting days for ever. A tough price to pay for a volunteer who jumps out of bed or leaves his place of business several times a week to answer calls for help with absolutely no reward or payment except that which comes with self respect and honor. The fire company stood behind me 100% and I received some nice words from the chief for sticking to my initial report that I was the last person to inspect the car, and was absolutely certain no one went near the car after me, even though that cast all suspicion on me.

It wasn't until a few days later a township LEO asked me why I stayed so long after the injured were transported and the coroner and came and went. I said I chose to stay and talk with a witness after the police questioned him because he was too shaken up and called to have someone pick him up. I didn't want to leave him there alone after what he just saw, so I waited with him until his ride got there. Then he asked how long we stood there, and I said shortly after the tow truck took the victims car, his ride came and I went home. At that moment I think a light bulb lit above both our heads, and the LEO said thanks, that's all.

[schmol]

he survived with a very large laceration behind the right ear and of course he was in shock. He was damn lucky there wasnt a passenger in that truck as there wasnt a passenger seat anymore, it was crushed to about 6" wide.