Scenarios

[DoubleB33]

After reading about the assault on Washington Avenue in Philadelphia I think it would be good idea to have a thread dealing with different scenarios that may be encountered while carrying (CC/Open).....

Post a scenario then we can all discuss our course of action..........


You are walking down a side street with your significant other to go to the car after dinner. As you approach your car, you see a male attempting to open the drivers side door of your vehicle. As you get closer he reveals a knife and tells you to back away. What do you do next?

[JoeWilliams]

After reading about the assault on Washington Avenue in Philadelphia I think it would be good idea to have a thread dealing with different scenarios that may be encountered while carrying (CC/Open).....

Post a scenario then we can all discuss our course of action..........


You are walking down a side street with your significant other to go to the car after dinner. As you approach your car, you see a male attempting to open the drivers side door of your vehicle. As you get closer he reveals a knife and tells you to back away. What do you do next?

Back away, draw discretely and call the police. Not gonna shoot unless BG advances on me, nor generate more of a confrontation by waving my gun around. I've got insurance on my car, which I can guarantee will pay off. There are never any guarantees one will win a violent confrontation.

[panther76]

I've had one similar experience, which I want to point out happened in Pittsburgh not Philly.

There was a panhandler, one that I'd seen before on and off in the same area for at least a year. He kept following me, along Forbes Avenue in Oakland for several blocks. It was around five or six a.m., so the street was pretty deserted and I was walking alone. Amazingly for my college days, I was straight sober, and not as amazing, I was lawfully carrying a new Glock in an IWB holster.

The guy accosted me again near the doors of a fast food place that was closed but getting ready to open. I told him to get lost or I’d call the police and he pulled a homemade knife or shank. He didn’t step towards me or verbally threaten me. He was about five to ten feet away. I ordered him (yelled) to “drop it” and “step back” and put my hand on my holstered gun.

If I’d been closer to him, or he had come towards me, I probably would have actually drawn on him or maybe fired. Luckily, I didn’t have to. He saw the gun, dropped the shank in the gutter, and begged me not to call the police. Since I didn’t have a cell phone, I banged on the window of the fast food place to get someone’s attention.

While I was asking them to call the police the vagrant ran off and I had little choice but to let him go. I reported things to the cops and gave them the guy’s description. I recall getting a business card from one of the LEOs and either got a phone call or called him later. I was told the guy was picked up on different charges and that he already had warrants that would put him away for quite a decent stretch.

So I never had to testify and never saw the guy again. I don't know for certain that the guy went to jail, just the LEO's word on it, but I have no reason to believe otherwise. I never volunteered to the police that I had a LTCF or that I was carrying a firearm during the incident, but I didn't lie either. And the LEO never asked. All they seemed to care about was the guy's description, whether I'd seen him hanging around the campus area before, and recovering the shank he dropped.

That was a long time ago, but I don't think my response would be all that different today, even though I'm bit older and more mature. I would also say that my other experiences with LE in Allegheny County, and every local instance of self-defense shooting that I've read about in the newspapers, leave me pretty confident about things, in the Pittsburgh area at least.

I have read of about seven or eight incidents in Pittsburgh in the last ten years, involving private citizens who fired a lawfully carried firearm in self-defense. Regardless of whether they were at home, in their business, or on a public street, I can't recall a single case that ended with the law abiding citizen being arrested, charged, having their gun confiscated, or their permit revoked. I would note that in all cases the bad guy was a stranger, who was armed or claimed to be, had made a verbal threat or brandished a weapon, and Joe Public was lawfully carrying under a PA LTCF.

[noofus]

After reading about the assault on Washington Avenue in Philadelphia I think it would be good idea to have a thread dealing with different scenarios that may be encountered while carrying (CC/Open).....

Post a scenario then we can all discuss our course of action..........


You are walking down a side street with your significant other to go to the car after dinner. As you approach your car, you see a male attempting to open the drivers side door of your vehicle. As you get closer he reveals a knife and tells you to back away. What do you do next?

I always have a surefire light (clipped to left pocket), metal-bodied pen and locking assisted open folder (clipped to right pocket). I generally dont carry so here is how I would play this out depending on if I am carrying or not:

First - the Surefire comes out, hit him with light. If you have a firearm, the instant he is stunned by the light (you only have a moment) is your chance to draw and acquire the target. Choice between fire or no depends on his next move (towards you with knife or runs away).

If no firearm, then as the light hits him I need to decide if I need to get my knife out, or would be better off with my right hand free.

From there I cant speculate any farther since you need to know what the guy is intending on doing first - which can never happen. Trick to personal defense is being able to read the situation quickly and useing the tools you have available.

[DoubleB33]

Good, I agree with all of the responses so far.......can anybody else think of a similar scenario? Maybe a robbery attempt?

[noofus]

Good, I agree with all of the responses so far.......can anybody else think of a similar scenario? Maybe a robbery attempt?

You are sitting in a mall food court when some guy at a table nearby stands up and starts yelling ALLAH U AKBAR. You think you might see some kind on button in his hand or maybe a wire.

Do you draw and shoot? Or is it some stupid kid being a moron? Can you shoot at a bomb vest without it detonating?

If you blow the guy away and find out it was a stupid joke and the guy didnt have a bomb vest on - what happens to you? Assume everyone around the food court is in agreement the guy was screaming ALLAH U AKBAR at the top of his lungs before you perforated them with a hollow point or two...

[Emptymag]

You are sitting in a mall food court when some guy at a table nearby stands up and starts yelling ALLAH U AKBAR. You think you might see some kind on button in his hand or maybe a wire.

Do you draw and shoot? Or is it some stupid kid being a moron? Can you shoot at a bomb vest without it detonating?

If you blow the guy away and find out it was a stupid joke and the guy didnt have a bomb vest on - what happens to you? Assume everyone around the food court is in agreement the guy was screaming ALLAH U AKBAR at the top of his lungs before you perforated them with a hollow point or two...

My head may explode today.

Yep. I think today may be the day.

[panther76]

Here is another real personal experience. It is first hand, although it was my friend carrying a firearm, not me. Just another scenario to think about. And one, I would add, that is more likely to happen than the whole "getting jumped by ninjas" type of gun-related fantasies that some gun-writers dream up when they tell you need the latest and greatest hi-cap whatever.

A drunk stumbled out of a local bar, in the middle of the afternoon. I think he had been told to leave. We were passing by on the sidewalk. When he asked us for bus fare my friend told him to “go to H$%#*”. The drunk then threatened to “shoot” us, in those words. My friend was lawfully carrying a gun. I think because the other guy was visibly drunk and because of the tone of the drunk guy's voice, I didn't take the threat all that seriously. Nonetheless, my friend told him he was armed, to keep his hands in plain view and that we were going to call the police. The drunk promptly retracted his statement and began running, or sort of quickly staggering, off down the street.

We walked about a block away and reported it to a Pittsburgh city cop. The cops ran the guy down, cuffed him, searched him, and made him apologize to us. The guy was unarmed and started literally crying and yammering about his problems and how he just wanted bus fare to go home, and didn’t even own any firearms. After we agreed we didn’t want to press charges, the cops gave him change for the bus, and physically put him on it with instructions to go home or go to jail for making threats and public intoxication.

They took things seriously and offered to take statements and charge the guy, so I’m not saying LE didn’t do their jobs. I thought they handled things really professionally, and never threatened anyone verbally or drew a firearm at anyone including the drunk guy. They never asked to see our permits or tried to disarm us. They took the guy's ID and I think ran his license before they let him go. At the same time they completely maintained control of the situation and sorted things out. As no one ended up in jail or the hospital the only person unhappy with the outcome was the PAT bus driver who didn't really want a drunk guy on his bus.

[reels18]

I always have a surefire light (clipped to left pocket), metal-bodied pen and locking assisted open folder (clipped to right pocket). I generally dont carry so here is how I would play this out depending on if I am carrying or not:

First - the Surefire comes out, hit him with light. If you have a firearm, the instant he is stunned by the light (you only have a moment) is your chance to draw and acquire the target. Choice between fire or no depends on his next move (towards you with knife or runs away).

If no firearm, then as the light hits him I need to decide if I need to get my knife out, or would be better off with my right hand free.

From there I cant speculate any farther since you need to know what the guy is intending on doing first - which can never happen. Trick to personal defense is being able to read the situation quickly and useing the tools you have available.

If you can hit him with a small flashlight, you let him get too close. If this guy is a convicted felon, chances are he is in better physical condition than you. Unless you have the time to lift weights eight hours a day.

One of the benefits of our prison system is a convict is healthier and in better physical condition than when he went in.

A life of crime is hard work. Thankfully, they are more prepared to start up where they left off in their careers when they are released.

[panther76]

I always have a surefire light (clipped to left pocket), metal-bodied pen and locking assisted open folder (clipped to right pocket).

Great advice, agree completely about the surefire.

I generally dont carry so here is how I would play this out depending on if I am carrying or not:

Why not? You never need a gun until you don't have one.

If no firearm, then as the light hits him I need to decide if I need to get my knife out, or would be better off with my right hand free.

I'm not a lawyer, but in PA you run a serious risk of being charged with having a concealed weapon for carrying and brandishing a knife, depending on the knife, regardless of whether you have a LTCF or not. In some states the permit is a CCW permit that covers other things than just a firearm, in PA it DOES NOT.