Transporting a Firearms

[Philistine]

The "separate container" language comes from the definition of "loaded" in 18 Pa.C.S. Sec. 6102:

"Loaded." A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm. If the magazine is inserted into a pouch, holder, holster or other protective device that provides for a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition, then the pouch, holder, holster or other protective device shall be deemed to be a separate compartment.

The law against carrying long-arms loaded comes from 18 Pa.C.S. Sec. 6106.1 ("Carrying Loaded Weapons Other than Firearms"):

(a) General rule.--Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), in any vehicle...." (Emphasis added).

According to Pa's somewhat screwy definition of "Firearm," most longarms are not actually "firearms." The definition (in 6102) is:

"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

--Philistine

[GunLawyer001]

thank you for that.. as a follow up.. does this apply to SBRs? or can they be transported loaded assuming everything else is up and up..

Most if not all SBR's are going to be "firearms", so they aren't guns other than firearms; defined firearms can be carried by a person with a PA LTCF loaded in a vehicle or concealed on your person. Whether the particular traffic control officer or mall cop who sees it will understand how multiple statutes interlock to your benefit, is a different question, and you could be hassled. It's easy to imagine someone who knows that "loaded rifles" can't be carried in your car, sees your rifle, hears you call it a "short barreled rifle", and concludes that you broke the law and your toy is derivative contraband. It never hurts to have a copy of the UFA handy, with tabs for the key provisions, and maybe an index card directing the curious to each relevant section.

[jthrelf]

It's all in the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act:

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...hoice=suppress

It's actually fairly easy to read and understand. Lots of good info there.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Well, this has me curious now. I have LTCF and never have a loaded rifle in my vehicle, because I’m aware of that law (BS, but whatever). I never knew that law included a “separate container” requirement?? I thought the separate container deal was for interstate transport through commie zones (FOPA)

When I transport my AR, it’s in a hard case with 3 30 rd mags. No mag in the mag well, chamber empty.

If you have a at bag pouch with a too flap, that is a container

[PickingPA]

If you have a at bag pouch with a too flap, that is a container

Arguably, a zip-lock bag would serve the same purpose

[R L Suehr]

This is 2021. All my rifles now identify as "firearms."

Problem solved.

[widgetman101]

Yes, you're doing it wrong. At least put the loaded mags inside some kind of compartment within the case, so your lawyer has SOME argument (in addition to the "these aren't firearms, so the dictionary definition of 'loaded' applies").

Also, it looks like the rifle has a mag inserted, so unless that mag is empty, you're toast, under pretty much any definition of "loaded".

What a bunch of BS, that's how I've always transported firearms too. Long guns empty with bolt open and no magazine attached but I have loaded magazines in case cutouts. I guess I'll need to start throwing the magazines in a separate ammo box and keep the long guns in their own cases.

[Emptymag]

"Bolt open" is one of those pre-internet myths that I was told I had to do, oh so long ago.

[Spaceballs]

It's all in the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act:

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs...hoice=suppress

It's actually fairly easy to read and understand. Lots of good info there.

Let me get this straight....

"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

My Remington 870 with an 18.5 inch police barrel and an overall length of about 36 inches (give or take) is not a firearm in the state of Pennsylvania? And if I put the 24 inch skeet barrel on it then it's like...REALLY not a firearm?

Sorry...I grew up in Maryland where the gun laws are just as nonsensical, but in the other direction...where they LITERALLY charged an elementary school kid with assault for biting his sandwich into the shape of a gun at school.

[wis bang]

My Remington 870 with an 18.5 inch police barrel and an overall length of about 36 inches (give or take) is not a firearm in the state of Pennsylvania? And if I put the 24 inch skeet barrel on it then it's like...REALLY not a firearm?

Sorry...I grew up in Maryland where the gun laws are just as nonsensical, but in the other direction...where they LITERALLY charged an elementary school kid with assault for biting his sandwich into the shape of a gun at school.

Yup...Longarms go under title 34 game laws