Vintage SxS

**BigMikeM31** · September 3rd, 2009, 10:33 PM

Hi, all. I'll be in the market for a vintage SxS soon. I'm pretty well set on an American gun. I'll most likely pick up an L.C. Smith, Fox or Ithaca depending on which fits best. Provided I find a gun that fits me properly, what should I be aware of in terms of things to look for in vintage guns? I know that it should lock up tight and that the bores should not be pitted. Obviously the barrels shouldn't be dented nor should the stock be cracked. So beyond the basics, what else should I look for?

Thanks.

**knight0334** · September 4th, 2009, 01:05 AM

1. bulged/ballooned barrels.
2. if you're gonna buy really old scatterguns - pay attention to the "grain" when looking at damascus twist barrels. if someone has shot modern ammo in them, pressure signs will appear in the form of hairline cracks and such
3. shortened barrels and stocks, both take away from the value.

**Pete D.** · September 4th, 2009, 06:40 AM

Make sure it fits you. Mount it and be sure that the gun points where you are looking.
Tap the barrels when they are off the gun (take the fore end piece off and hang the barrels from a finger by the lug), they should ring like a chime.
Look for cracks on the wrist of the gun, not at all uncommon in vintage shotguns.
Make sure that, when the gun is broken open, the firing pins have fully retracted.
Take the barrels off and look for rust underneath. While doing that, look at the breech face and check the firing pin holes; they should be round, not oval, in shape (though that would not be a deal killer.)
Bring a couple of snap caps - put some cellophane tape over the primer part and snap each barrel - make sure that you have a good FP hit.
How important is "original" to you. Many "vintage" SGs have had the butt altered and a recoil pad installed (how well that has been done is another thing to watch out for). The original buttplate is gone.
I have two old Ithaca Flues, a Parker VH and a Lefever Nitro Special (and an old Savage O/U). All of them mount like they were fitted for me. The first one that I bought was a learning experience. It passed all the tests. I took it home and put it in the cabinet. I didn't fire it for months. When I finally did take it out to shoot some clays, problem. Modern shotgun loads cause it to lock up; the gun won;t break open. It has to be dismantled and forced. too many months had passed to take it back to the dealer. Multiple trips to assorted gunsmiths could do nothing. The good news was and is that I found that the gun will function perfectly well with BP shotshells. No way that I could have known about this without firing - so, if you buy one, take it home and test it right away. Even the Savage O/U - when I got it home, I found that one barrel will not shoot Winchester shells. Shoots Remingtons every time but not Win. Go figure. (evidently it has to do with the shape of the primer)
Mostly I shoot low pressure loads of my own in these old guns. IMR's 7625 is a good low pressure powder.
Nothing points like a SXS.
Pete

**BigMikeM31** · September 5th, 2009, 01:34 AM

Thanks much, guys. I forgot to mention that I'm not looking for anything with Damascus barrels. The thing I wonder most about is how to tell if the stock or barrels have been shortened OR if parts of the stock have been replaced. It seems like it would be easy enough to put a new piece of wood on and inlet the area where the piece of metal goes to keep "matching serial no's"

**Pete D.** · September 5th, 2009, 05:53 AM

inlet the area where the piece of metal goes to keep "matching serial no's"

Mike: Not sure what you mean there. If the barrels were shortened, that wouldn't affect the serial #'s. I'd suspect any vintage SXS with barrels shorter than 28" or with two cylinder bores.
Stock repair may not be a bad thing if properly done. Missing a buttplate is more important for the "collector" value than a well done stock repair.
Pete

**BigMikeM31** · September 5th, 2009, 12:12 PM

Pete, you answered my question without even knowing what I was really asking.

I was asking about an instance where a repair would be made by replacing the fore end or butt stock but keeping the parts of the gun containing the serial numbers intact. I hope thats more clear. If it is, skip my example. On my O/U, there is a piece of metal that was inlet into the fore end that has the gun's serial number on it. That was what I was referring to. I'm not necessarily looking for the "collector's value" of a gun, in that I plan on doing a great deal of upland hunting with it. I just want to make sure I'm not going to pay the collector's price for just a shooter gun, if that makes sense...

**Pete D.** · September 7th, 2009, 08:42 PM

Mike: Ha. You are correct, of course. I completely misunderstood. In fact, i had to go look at my SXSs to see what you were referring to. I'd never looked at that part of the fore end. As long as it was a good fit and not damaged, I was happy.
Learned something, I did.
Pete