Why should I?!

**Micky** · May 11th, 2012, 09:20 PM

So, I'm watching American Trigger Sports Network, and they're talking about a robbery at a movie theater, in the parking lot. Guy and his girl walk to their car, are confronted by a robber with a gun, and the male victim starts giving him his wallet, his girl's purse, "I don't want any trouble"...

My question is simply this: why the fuck should I? I mean, that's MY wallet, MY money, MY identity. Fuck the robber. I don't want him taking my shit, and I'm ready, willing, and able to defend my property!

Is there some sort of jack-ass law that says I need to try to give him my stuff before I defend myself? Is there some sort of worthless law that says that I need to try to solve this peacefully, instead of rolling the dice and trying to ventilate said-criminal-asshole?

Forgive my lack of civilian law knowledge, I'm not used to a) giving commands in english, and b) not being instantly obeyed due to the M-16A4 I was carrying.

**sprrdhawk44** · May 11th, 2012, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Micky

So, I'm watching American Trigger Sports Network, and they're talking about a robbery at a movie theater, in the parking lot. Guy and his girl walk to their car, are confronted by a robber with a gun, and the male victim starts giving him his wallet, his girl's purse, "I don't want any trouble"...

My question is simply this: why the fuck should I? I mean, that's MY wallet, MY money, MY identity. Fuck the robber. I don't want him taking my shit, and I'm ready, willing, and able to defend my property!

Is there some sort of jack-ass law that says I need to try to give him my stuff before I defend myself? Is there some sort of worthless law that says that I need to try to solve this peacefully, instead of rolling the dice and trying to ventilate said-criminal-asshole?

Forgive my lack of civilian law knowledge, I'm not used to a) giving commands in english, and b) not being instantly obeyed due to the M-16A4 I was carrying.

You can use lethal force to defend your life or the life of a third party if you are in fear of imminent death or severe bodily harm. There is no law that forces you to hand over your belongings first.

That said, I'd like to hear how you plan to outdraw a drawn gun. Situational awareness is key.

**twency** · May 11th, 2012, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Micky

So, I'm watching American Trigger Sports Network, and they're talking about a robbery at a movie theater, in the parking lot. Guy and his girl walk to their car, are confronted by a robber with a gun, and the male victim starts giving him his wallet, his girl's purse, "I don't want any trouble"...

My question is simply this: why the fuck should I? I mean, that's MY wallet, MY money, MY identity. Fuck the robber. I don't want him taking my shit, and I'm ready, willing, and able to defend my property!

Is there some sort of jack-ass law that says I need to try to give him my stuff before I defend myself? Is there some sort of worthless law that says that I need to try to solve this peacefully, instead of rolling the dice and trying to ventilate said-criminal-asshole?

Forgive my lack of civilian law knowledge, I'm not used to a) giving commands in english, and b) not being instantly obeyed due to the M-16A4 I was carrying.

Well for one thing it's a lot easier to cancel your credit cards and replace your driver's license and a few bucks lost cash than to defend yourself against bogus criminal charges brought by an overzealous D.A. who thinks you weren't justified in using deadly force to defend yourself.

For another thing, you may think you're "ready, willing, and able", but the bad guy might have just as much training/preparedness/natural skill/whatever than you, and kill you if you try to fight him.

On the other hand if you think the guy's just going to kill you anyway when you hand over your stuff, then there's no downside to fighting for your life.

Every situation is different.

**PaBimmerGuy** · May 11th, 2012, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Micky

. . . not being instantly obeyed due to the M-16A4 I was carrying.

so what you are saying is that you are a bully?

**longcall911** · May 11th, 2012, 09:52 PM

No there's no law that says you have to turn over your property. Of course the question is, how much do you like the GF and would she be enough to seal the deal?

One tactic is to throw a wad of cash on the ground near the robber. Then when he goes for it, you make your move on him. You're young and may be speedy enough to overcome the BG. Me, I'm an old guy. My GF is toast...

**knight0334** · May 11th, 2012, 10:30 PM

If you are being robbed at gun point you are certainly in risk of death or serious bodily injury. I don't think there is a court outside of the liberal infestations that has held otherwise.

PA ruling even allows for shooting fleeing felons when attempts to effect an arrest have failed in the following:

In Commonwealth v. Chermansky, 430 Pa. 170, 242 A.2d 237, 239 (1968) - quoted from Kopko v Miller 2005.

“[a] private person in fresh pursuit of one who has committed a felony may arrest without a warrant. And in Pennsylvania we have always followed the common law rule that if the felon flees and his arrest cannot be effected without killing him, the killing is justified.” However, we narrowed the types of felonies for which the rule was applicable and held that:

from this date forward the use of deadly force by a private person in order to prevent the escape of one who has committed a felony or has joined or assisted in the commission of a felony is justified only if the felony committed is treason, murder, voluntary manslaughter, mayhem, arson, robbery, common law rape, common law burglary, kidnapping, assault with intent to murder, rape or rob, or a felony which normally causes or threatens death or great bodily harm.

Also there is:

18 Pa.C.S. § 508: Use of force in law enforcement

(d) Use of force to prevent suicide or the commission of crime.--
(1) The use of force upon or toward the person of another is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary to prevent such other person from committing suicide, inflicting serious bodily injury upon himself, committing or consummating the commission of a crime involving or threatening bodily injury, damage to or loss of property or a breach of the peace, except that:
(i) Any limitations imposed by the other provisions of this chapter on the justifiable use of force in self-protection, for the protection of others, the protection of property, the effectuation of an arrest or the prevention of an escape from custody shall apply notwithstanding the criminality of the conduct against which such force is used.
(ii) The use of deadly force is not in any event justifiable under this subsection unless:
(A) the actor believes that there is a substantial risk that the person whom he seeks to prevent from committing a crime will cause death or serious bodily injury to another unless the commission or the consummation of the crime is prevented and that the use of such force presents no substantial risk of injury to innocent persons; or
(B) the actor believes that the use of such force is necessary to suppress a riot or mutiny after the rioters or mutineers have been ordered to disperse and warned, in any particular manner that the law may require, that such force will be used if they do not obey.
(2) The justification afforded by this subsection extends to the use of confinement as preventive force only if the actor takes all reasonable measures to terminate the confinement as soon as he knows that he safely can, unless the person confined has been arrested on a charge of crime.

**Shisno** · May 11th, 2012, 11:08 PM

This is one of the reasons I like pocket carry. I can nonchalantly pull out my "wallet" that just so happens to be a .357 magnum.

As others have said, no law says you have to hand over anything. If you're in fear of your life, act accordingly. It may be better to give them your wallet, it may be better to fight like an animal for your life.

**mrnyman** · May 11th, 2012, 11:59 PM

So you are used to "kicking ass" overseas you and your government owned M16A4 and you are not yet or simply wont adjust to civilian life, instead you still want to be "obeyed" , have you yet applied to the local police department, ? they just Looove guys like you.

Nyman

**NuclearSociety** · May 12th, 2012, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by twency

Well for one thing it's a lot easier to cancel your credit cards and replace your driver's license and a few bucks lost cash than to defend yourself against bogus criminal charges brought by an overzealous D.A. who thinks you weren't justified in using deadly force to defend yourself.

For another thing, you may think you're "ready, willing, and able", but the bad guy might have just as much training/preparedness/natural skill/whatever than you, and kill you if you try to fight him.

On the other hand if you think the guy's just going to kill you anyway when you hand over your stuff, then there's no downside to fighting for your life.

Every situation is different.

If they get my DL then they know where I live, and I dont want them showing back up again, or selling / using my ID.

But hey, They started it.

**dman** · May 12th, 2012, 09:03 AM

If he's got the drop on you , you will die and if he's far eough out reach , even a trained martial artist knows when he's been had.
The only chance I see is if you have a coat on with a G-36 or some power pistol in your pocket , you can shoot through the pocket but do you really want to take that kind of chance with your GF and yourself?
cooporate , give him what he wants and hope for the best.