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    Default Use of Jeffersons's Quran by Congressman Hill

    Everyone has read or heard the story of Democrat Ellison being the first Muslim United States Congressman who placed his hand on the Quran, the book of Muslim Jihad to pledge allegiance to the United States.
    __________________________________________________ ______
    http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan07/jeff_quran.htm
    ______________________________________________

    The Quran that Ellison used belonged to Thomas Jefferson and Ellison made statements to the effect that Jefferson was a "visionary" and he gleaned wisdom from the reading of the Muslim Quran. This is a very true statement but taken out of text

    By Ted Sampley
    U.S. Veteran Dispatch
    January 2007
    Democrat Keith Ellison is now officially the first Muslim United States congressman. True to his pledge, he placed his hand on the Quran, the Muslim book of jihad and pledged his allegiance to the United States during his ceremonial swearing-in.

    Capitol Hill staff said Ellison's swearing-in photo opportunity drew more media than they had ever seen in the history of the U.S. House. Ellison represents the 5th Congressional District of Minnesota.

    The Quran Ellison used was no ordinary book. It once belonged to Thomas Jefferson, third president of the United States and one of America's founding fathers. Ellison borrowed it from the Rare Book Section of the Library of Congress. It was one of the 6,500 Jefferson books archived in the library.

    Ellison, who was born in Detroit and converted to Islam while in college, said he chose to use Jefferson's Quran because it showed that "a visionary like Jefferson" believed that wisdom could be gleaned from many sources.

    There is no doubt Ellison was right about Jefferson believing wisdom could be "gleaned" from the Muslim Quran. At the time Jefferson owned the book, he needed to know everything possible about Muslims because he was about to advocate war against the Islamic "Barbary" states of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Tripoli.

    Ellison's use of Jefferson's Quran as a prop illuminates a subject once well-known in the history of the United States, but, which today, is mostly forgotten - the Muslim pirate slavers who over many centuries enslaved millions of Africans and tens of thousands of Christian Europeans and Americans in the Islamic "Barbary" states.

    Over the course of 10 centuries, Muslim pirates cruised the African and Mediterranean coastline, pillaging villages and seizing slaves.

    The taking of slaves in pre-dawn raids on unsuspecting coastal villages had a high casualty rate. It was typical of Muslim raiders to kill off as many of the "non-Muslim" older men and women as possible so the preferred "booty" of only young women and children could be collected.

    Young non-Muslim women were targeted because of their value as concubines in Islamic markets. Islamic law provides for the sexual interests of Muslim men by allowing them to take as many as four wives at one time and to have as many concubines as their fortunes allow.

    Boys, as young as 9 or 10 years old, were often mutilated to create eunuchs who would bring higher prices in the slave markets of the Middle East. Muslim slave traders created "eunuch stations" along major African slave routes so the necessary surgery could be performed. It was estimated that only a small number of the boys subjected to the mutilation survived after the surgery.

    When American colonists rebelled against British rule in 1776, American merchant ships lost Royal Navy protection. With no American Navy for protection, American ships were attacked and their Christian crews enslaved by Muslim pirates operating under the control of the "Dey of Algiers"--an Islamist warlord ruling Algeria.

    Because American commerce in the Mediterranean was being destroyed by the pirates, the Continental Congress agreed in 1784 to negotiate treaties with the four Barbary States. Congress appointed a special commission consisting of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin, to oversee the negotiations.

    Lacking the ability to protect its merchant ships in the Mediterranean, the new America government tried to appease the Muslim slavers by agreeing to pay tribute and ransoms in order to retrieve seized American ships and buy the freedom of enslaved sailors.

    Adams argued in favor of paying tribute as the cheapest way to get American commerce in the Mediterranean moving again. Jefferson was opposed. He believed there would be no end to the demands for tribute and wanted matters settled "through the medium of war." He proposed a league of trading nations to force an end to Muslim piracy.

    In 1786, Jefferson, then the American ambassador to France, and Adams, then the American ambassador to Britain, met in London with Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the "Dey of Algiers" ambassador to Britain.

    The Americans wanted to negotiate a peace treaty based on Congress' vote to appease.

    During the meeting Jefferson and Adams asked the Dey's ambassador why Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts.

    In a later meeting with the American Congress, the two future presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."

    For the following 15 years, the American government paid the Muslims millions of dollars for the safe passage of American ships or the return of American hostages. The payments in ransom and tribute amounted to 20 percent of United States government annual revenues in 1800.

    Not long after Jefferson's inauguration as president in 1801, he dispatched a group of frigates to defend American interests in the Mediterranean, and informed Congress.

    Declaring that America was going to spend "millions for defense but not one cent for tribute," Jefferson pressed the issue by deploying American Marines and many of America's best warships to the Muslim Barbary Coast.

    The USS Constitution, USS Constellation, USS Philadelphia, USS Chesapeake, USS Argus, USS Syren and USS Intrepid all saw action.

    In 1805, American Marines marched across the dessert from Egypt into Tripolitania, forcing the surrender of Tripoli and the freeing of all American slaves.

    During the Jefferson administration, the Muslim Barbary States, crumbling as a result of intense American naval bombardment and on shore raids by Marines, finally officially agreed to abandon slavery and piracy.

    Jefferson's victory over the Muslims lives on today in the Marine Hymn, with the line, "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, we will fight our country's battles on the land as on the sea."

    It wasn't until 1815 that the problem was fully settled by the total defeat of all the Muslim slave trading pirates.

    Jefferson had been right. The "medium of war" was the only way to put and end to the Muslim problem. Mr. Ellison was right about Jefferson. He was a "visionary" wise enough to read and learn about the enemy from their own Muslim book of jihad. __________________________________________________ _____________________________________

    Maybe some of todays political and military leaders should take a page or two out of Jefferson Book and learn as much as they can about the "enemy."

    grizz
    Last edited by GRIZZLYBEAR; January 9th, 2007 at 08:24 PM. Reason: content

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    Default Re: Use of Jeffersons's Quran by Congressman Hill

    Interesting story but not really true. If you are interested in the real story I recommend the great book The Pirate Coast: Thomas Jefferson, the First Marines, and the Secret Mission of 1805 by Richard Zacks.

    For example, the USS Philadelphia ran aground by accident off the coast of Tripoli and the cowardly US Captain surrendered the ship resulting in the crew being captured as slaves. Afterwards some of the captured US crew converted is Islam and help guard and beat the other prisoners.

    The US Marines of the famed "shores of Tripoli" were just a few (12 I think) that worked with the great William Eaton on a secret mission to overthrow the Bashaw of Tripoli by trying to place his older brother on the throne with hopes that he would be friendlier to the USA. Our first covert ops to overthrow a government in a preemptive war, not supported by our allies - if you will. Of course Jefferson and Tobias Lear (US Consul to the Barbary Coast) stabbed Eaton, the brother and the US Marines in the back.

    There was never a surrender of Tripoli and the freeing of the American slaves (prisoners) was negotiated by a secret deal to pay more than a few cents for tribute. The Marines, Eaton and a ragtag group of missionaries did capture the town of Derne (near Tripoli). This was the first time the American flag was raised over a foreign land.

    Of course the French were working against us even back then.

    Real history is much more interesting than folklore. All we see today had been done time and time again.

    Sorry to side track your thread but I'm shocked that the U.S. Veteran Dispatch does not know the basics of US History.

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    Default Re: Use of Jeffersons's Quran by Congressman Hill

    PhillyD2

    Nothing to be sorry for, thanks!!!!
    I didn't check out the historic facts figuring that the US Veterans Dispatch had them right.


    That's is the reason that I like to links to the articles I post.

    The reason I posted had more to do with the last couple of sentences of the article:


    Jefferson had been right. The "medium of war" was the only way to put and end to the Muslim problem. Mr. Ellison was right about Jefferson. He was a "visionary" wise enough to read and learn about the enemy from their own Muslim book of jihad.


    Maybe some of todays political and military leaders should take a page or two out of Jefferson Book and learn as much as they can about the "enemy."







    grizz
    Last edited by GRIZZLYBEAR; January 10th, 2007 at 01:17 AM. Reason: content

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    Default Re: Use of Jeffersons's Quran by Congressman Hill

    Quote Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post

    Real history is much more interesting than folklore.
    The victors get to write the history books.

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    Default Re: Use of Jeffersons's Quran by Congressman Hill

    I found interesting to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War although the did not talk of any "books" If you follow through on the first page, there is more on the second Barbary war as well.
    Skeet is a sport where you are better to hit half of each bird then completely blast one and miss the other completely.

    The choice is yours, place your faith in the court system and 12 of your peers, or carried away by 6 friends.

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    The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

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    Default Re: Use of Jeffersons's Quran by Congressman Hill

    Quote Originally Posted by phillyd2 View Post
    ...

    Of course the French were working against us even back then...
    Ah, yes. The so-called "Quasi War" or the undeclared war with France again. Which was the unintended consequence of the John Jay treaty, which was an effort to tie up loose ends resulting from the war for independence. Another consequence was failing to gain the release of incarcerated US sailors in British hands, which became a contributing factor to the War of 1812.

    Despite Jefferson's (correctly) predicted outcome of the Jay Treaty, it may have been the best move at the time particularly in light of our (lack of) capacity for war in the 1792-1800 time frame.

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    Default Re: Use of Jeffersons's Quran by Congressman Hill

    Allowing the Muslim world to penetrate into our government is a mistake that we will live to regret. Bill T.

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    Default Re: Use of Jeffersons's Quran by Congressman Hill

    Quote Originally Posted by billt View Post
    Allowing the Muslim world to penetrate into our government is a mistake that we will live to regret. Bill T.
    Allowing ANY religion into our government is a mistake that we will live to regret.
    ==============
    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”
    ~Samuel Adams

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
    ~Thomas Jefferson, 1791

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    Default Re: Use of Jeffersons's Quran by Congressman Hill

    Diego, you might want to read up on the founding fathers and their outlooks on religion before you make a blanket statement like that.

    billt, i refuse to blame the whole for the works of some. granted there seems to be a propensity towards violent conversion within some of the major groups involved but i refuse to generalize like that.
    Bill USAF 1976 - 1986, NRA Endowment, USCCA

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    Default Re: Use of Jeffersons's Quran by Congressman Hill

    Quote Originally Posted by billamj View Post
    billt, i refuse to blame the whole for the works of some. granted there seems to be a propensity towards violent conversion within some of the major groups involved but i refuse to generalize like that.
    It's becoming harder and harder to sort the "good Muslims" from the bad. Most won't condemn the action of the radicals because of fear, or because secretly they support their hate of America. I don't trust a religion, or the people in it that preaches violence. Remember, the Koran Hill was sworn in on is the same book we give to enemy combatants in GITMO. There is simply far too much risk in accepting these people and zero reward. Being politically correct is going to get a lot of Americans killed, plain and simple. That is a fact. Bill T.

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