Convo with a LEO from MA

[MontCo Alex]

I was in a bar in Philly yesterday with a few friends. One of them is from Massachusetts, just outside Boston. His dad was there and is a LEO up there.
I went up and asked him what he was carrying since he didn't seem to have any obvious bulges or such.

Interestingly he said he never carries off duty. He said he doesn't want the responsibility of carrying and that having a gun would just cause problems. I was really surprised. Then my friend who knows I carry told his dad this and his dad was like really surprised. He was literally like "normal people can carry guns in this state?" I showed him my license and he was really amazed. He asked me what the reason was, and I told him about shall issue. This further amazed him. At one point he started telling me things I couldn't do like "wait, you can't keep it in your car" and I responded "In PA, if you have license you can keep it in your car, or wear it around your neck as a necklace, it doesn't matter". I said that most LEO's in PA support it, and he was like speechless.

Now he had probably had a few beers as this was about midnight and they are Irish, but he was really shocked that in PA I could carry in a bar. He got into a typical "its just going to escalate the situation" etc etc. arguments I'm used to hearing and I rebutted them fine.

He seemed against it and told me that to be honest he wasn't comfortable with me carrying in the same bar. I told him that I've carried for almost a year, and never had a problem. That I've only had to draw once when someone approached me with a knife while I was waiting for an elevator at the end of tunnel. I went on to say that 35 states are shall issue and that MA is the exception rather than the rule.

I'm not sure I convinced him by the end of the night. I talked to him for almost an hour I'd say. He was a little weird, he was standing in a way that sort of blocked the way to the only bathroom, and when ever someone bumped him or such he would give the guy a dirty look like he wanted to fight him. It was sort of un-nerving, I felt like he wanted to get into a fight.

Later, someone came up to me and said he couldn't help but overhear us talking about guns. He was a transplant from New Orleans and was now living in Philly. I immediately apologized for Philly and their process for obtaining at LTCF. He had one in LA, so he had been fingerprinted etc. there, so it didn't seem like a big deal to him, but he hasn't gotten one yet. We chatted a bit, and decided we should go shooting sometime, so we exchanged info. Apparently his GF (who was cute) shoots also and I was like "Does she have a sister?" lol. I mentioned PAFOA, but it was a loud bar, so I didn't push it and figured I'd tell him about it later.

Overall it was an interesting night, where I met two people from different sides of the spectrum. Earlier actually, I told a girl from South NJ and another from South Philly about carrying (they are my friends neighbor), and they were cool about it. They even invited me out for ones 21st birthday on Tuesday and said "OMG, you should bring your gun, you can be like my body guard" I said I probably wouldn't since I'll be drinking a lot, and they seemed disappointed but understood.

Just thought I'd share.

-Alex

[TinGLOCK]

One of them is from Massachusetts, just outside Boston. His dad was there and is a LEO up there...Interestingly he said he never carries off duty. He said he doesn't want the responsibility of carrying and that having a gun would just cause problems. I was really surprised...He got into a typical "its just going to escalate the situation"...

He seemed against it and told me that to be honest he wasn't comfortable with me carrying in the same bar...

I'm not sure I convinced him by the end of the night...He was a little weird...he would give the guy a dirty look like he wanted to fight him...I felt like he wanted to get into a fight...

Alex, I'm going to tell you because it seems like you don't know, and you should know: MA is probably one of the top five most libby states in the country. The fact that your friend's father is from the Boston area only intensifies the situation: Boston is terrible (in my opinion).

Anyway, you did the best you could. As we hear about on this forum all the time, some people's minds will never change when it comes to firearms and/or self-defense. Oh well.

Source: grew up in New England.

[mrjam2jab]

I cant find it now...but i was just reading that MA has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. They have a setup similar to NJ that you have to apply for permission to buy a firearm...and you have to apply for permission to carry. Similar to NY, they have 2 levels of license as well....

Residnet license

Non Res license

[MontCo Alex]

Alex, I'm going to tell you because it seems like you don't know, and you should know: MA is probably one of the top five most libby states in the country. The fact that your friend's father is from the Boston area only intensifies the situation: Boston is terrible (in my opinion).

Anyway, you did the best you could. As we hear about on this forum all the time, some people's minds will never change when it comes to firearms and/or self-defense. Oh well.

Source: grew up in New England.

I know MA is pretty bad. What I was surprised about was that he seemed to have no knowledge that other states allowed people to carry firearms legally. I though it was also strange that he didn't carry off duty. Maybe it was a waste of time to try and convince him, but eh, why not.

-Alex

[Capt Quahog]

Years ago I had a "License to Carry Firearms" in Massachusetts. That was for both handguns and longarms. Though Licenses were handled by the local police, the permits were in fact issued by the Department of Public Safety / Massachusetts State Police. There were only two REASONS for issuance . . . "Target and Hunting" and " Protection of Life and Property". With the Target and Hunting license, the person named could only carry his weapon to the range or hunting with a current hunting license. Thing is, police officer's that I knew said that the "reason" for issue was really of no interest to them so long as the person had a "license to carry". Often wondered though how that person who was carrying a concealed weapon with "Target and Hunting" as the reason would be handled by the law if there was an issue of "protection" where the firearm was used. (?)

"Protection or Life and Property" license was the real concealed gun carry permit. I had the Life and Property License so could carry on my person, usually under a sport jacket. Thing is, in Massachusetts with a license to carry, the holder must keep that firearm under his control at all times. If you've got a weapon with you, it can not "lawfully" be left in the car unattended. The gun gets stolen and the license holder is in trouble. Should that weapon be used in a crime and the license holder is really screwed, facing a possible criminal charge.

As a rule too, I would not carry a gun into a bar. Seen too many bar fights break out (at least in Boston) and instantly escalate into total mass chaos. Within a few seconds the whole place is in brawl. Don't need a loaded Model 1911 forty-five getting somehow loose in a swirling mob of fighting drunks. That Massachusetts cop is right . . . booze and guns are a bad mix . . .

Only time I packed heat was when going out during rare times at night when venturing into downtown Boston or into some questionable area. The bad guys seemed to know that you're armed. Remember more than once as I walked past . . . some guy sitting on a step would say . . . "Dat man . . he's packen". The bastards always seemed to know.

From what I hear from the whining natives, trying to get a license to carry in Massachusetts these days is a real pain in the ass. The person making application must take prescribed safety courses and all sorts of crap. Still know a couple of people who voluntarily reside in Massholio as we call it.

As a native Bostonian and half-arsed historian on the city and region (two books and various articles published) I can say with some authority . . . modern day Boston and Massachusetts in general totally sucks.

[camper]

Boston PD are indoctrinated well. They really believe that if they don't carry off duty, the boys in Roxbery or Dorchester won't either.

camper

[jerseytactical]

A college friend of mine is a police officer in a town about 30 min. north of Boston. He says he leaves his gun in his locker after his shift, and NEVER carries off duty. Something is SERIOUSLY wrong with that state. I have lots of family up there, and love to visit them, but when we go out, I have this overwhelming feeling of revulsion when I look at my surroundings, and hear about all the ridiculously dumb laws that the Commonwealth of Massholechusetts has to offer. I mean c'mon....you're in a bar for hours, tipping the bartender, and he is LEGALLY FORBIDDEN to give you a buyback?? How do these guys make any tip money? On Thanksgiving, I stopped at a supermarket to buy some last minute items, and threw in a 12 pack of beer, and at the checkout, the lady just took the 12 pack, and put it to the side, and said: "Sorry sir, no sales of alcoholic beverages on a holiday." I'm like: "WTF, it ain't Sunday?????" She said it didn't matter, because it was a holiday. Between that, and their Attorney General approved lists of "legally purchaseable" firearms, and their ridiculous $100 a year for a nonresident CCW, (if you're lucky enough to get one, of course). That whole state has become nothing more than a gaggle of commie-loving toilet bugs. It's something to be said when a NJ resident would never, ever, live there. Thank the Lord for New Hampshire!!!!

[celisup78]

Yeah, I moved from State College to Cambridge (5 miles from north of Boston) just over 1 year ago. Things are certainly strict up here. It is true that you need a firearms license just to purchase a box of ammo. No out-of-state purchases allowed, except maybe if you have a MA nonresident CCW.The police dept of the town that you live in decides what level of license you are issued. I was very fortunate to obtain an unrestricted LTC-A (means that I can carry concealed). In fact, you need to get a license even if you only want to carry OC/pepper spray. Hopefully I am only up here for 1 more year and then I can get back to the good ole free state of PA.

[egent]

You know all these thing say something about the state that this county has fallen into. When you consider the fact that the Revolutionary War started in the state when the British left Boston to confiscate guns from the militia.

I am not sure what it says, but it does say something. If nothing else it says that the people and officials of Mass need to go back to school and learn their history.

[Xringshooter]

Kinda the opposite from the MA LEO. I have a friend who is a LA County Sheriff Deputy. After the academy and he was on the job, he told me he never carried off duty. Then one day on the way home from his shift he stopped in to a stop and rob (7-11) to pick up a few things. Said he was in line and it hit him, "what the hell would I do if someone came in to rob it while I'm here, I'd be helpless". He now carries, besides his shield, his compact Beretta 9mm, an extra magazine and several sets of zip cuffs. He now doesn't go anywhere without being armed. Said he feels naked if he's not carrying.